Jeff Ornstein 0:01

Hi everyone, and welcome to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein. I am Jeff, and on this show we celebrate people on the cusp of greatness. Those building on past successes in some of the curious and inventive and sometimes unexpected ways they have achieved those and stepping into moments that could define their legacy. We'll talk about current projects, lessons learned, and the extraordinary opportunities ahead. So the best is yet to come. Ash D is a SAG-AFTRA and actor's equity actor, writer, executive producer, and stand-up comedian who made the extraordinary decision to leave a successful medical career to pursue storytelling full-time. Before Hollywood, he served as a physician, clinical researcher, and assistant professor at the world-renowned M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, specializing in pathology and transfusion medicine, after earning both his MD and MPH from the University of Virginia. Today, Ash has appeared in acclaimed television series including Better Call Saul, Euphoria, Dead to Me, and The Pit. Beyond acting, he's building a reputation as a creator behind the camera. His television pilot, Son of Bikram, which he also co-created and stars in, earned a special Jewry Prize at the SXSW Film and TV Festival. He's also the co-creator and star of the action comedy pilot Hit Baby, directed by Academy Award nominee Abigail Breslin, and appeared opposite Malin Akerman and Thomas Jane in the horror comedy Slayers. His journey from medicine to entertainment has made him a powerful voice on perseverance, reinvention, and creating your own opportunities in Hollywood. And we are delighted to have you here, Ash. Welcome.

Ash T 1:44

Thanks a lot, Jeff. I heard that intro and I was like, who is this person? And you know, we forget, we pause, we think, wait, did we do all that?

Jeff Ornstein 1:51

Well, it's fantastic. And you know, as we talked a little bit briefly before the show, it's exactly what this podcast is about of people making some really serious, life-changing alterations to what their passion is and how they're going to fulfill their legacy. And coming a doctor is no easy task. It's a lot of dedication, it's a lot of focus, and certainly ending up in MD Anderson, which is the premier cancer care facility in the planet, you must have been really good at it. So at what age did you make this move? I don't even remember. It's about eight years ago, though. So I've been in this since 2018. Well, that's pretty phenomenal. And so when you decided to jump, I mean, when you as you're a doctor, there's always a opportunity for you somewhere. And then when you're an actor, there's uh always an opportunity somewhere potentially out of reach. So it's a big change from a serious regular income to the danger of are people gonna find me worthy of performance at craft? So was there something that gave you that confidence and stability that you could leave medicine and become an actor and stand-up comedian for that matter?

Ash T 3:06

I think it was fear. It's actually fear that gave me the confidence because okay, here I am at MD Anderson Cancer Center. I'm like an assistant director of the transfusion center. I'm a senator, like it's everything that I've been looking for. I was a peer-reviewed, published author, and I was like, yeah, this is the track that I always wanted in life, theoretically, that I had fooled myself into thinking. And then when I got there, I realized, oh man, I'm really unhappy. And I was 30 pounds overweight as well. I was like 195. And I thought, well, I kind of have everything I want. I got the six-figure salary, I got this beautiful house, I'm in an arranged marriage. And I was like, God, I'm the most miserable I've ever been in life. The things that I thought that I would really enjoy, the success that I had did not fulfill me. And I asked myself, well, what is it that you want to do in life? And I said, Well, I really loved acting when I was five, but I was kind of dissuaded from doing that. I remember my dad said, Hey, you could be a doctor first, and then once you're a doctor, then be an actor. So remembering that, I said, you know what? Let me get into an acting class and try this out. And I went into my first acting class and boom, that was it. I was hooked. The four-year-old is back. I'd done a few plays in high school and all that, but I was like, Yeah, of course, of course. Oh, I love whatever this is. I'm happy every day I'm doing this. And I thought, crap, I'm gonna be poor. Because if I have to take on a struggling artist, I'm screwed. But you know what? The thing that follows me around is when you look at your deathbed at 90, are you gonna be proud of the choices that you made in life? And I luckily had this ability to look into the future and say, no, I'm not gonna be proud of myself because I didn't really give a shot for the thing that I have always known in my life that I wanted to do. And you're asking a very interesting question. How do you know you're gonna be good at this? Like, what if I liked basketball or football? I wanted to be a pro football player. Would I have the confidence to do that? I don't know, but I just I knew in my heart that I just love being an actor. And I still do eight years later. It's the one thing that I'm not bored of at all. Like, I enjoy getting up in the morning. I'm so grateful for my life. Yes, I don't have health insurance, ironically, as I live with roommates. It's like my life is like so much smaller financially, successfully, right? But my heart is so much fuller and I'm happier. And yeah, it's hard to do this for sure, but it's worth it and it's gonna pay off in the end. And I'm not gonna look back and think, oh, I didn't really live my life. I am gonna say I fucking lived my life and I'm proud of myself. And that to me is the most important thing.

Jeff Ornstein 6:03

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that when people hear that, people struggle because they are concerned about finances, they're concerned about support networks, you know, is their family gonna support them, they're concerned about the logistics about do I live in the right area, will I be able to call and make auditions? There are a lot of components that go into making that kind of decision. But I think what I'm learning from speaking with you is the most important component comes from within this passion. And I can't look back on my life at 70, 60, 70, 80 and say, if only. So you jumped in, and I understand you got acting worked rather quickly.

Ash T 6:42

Yeah, I think within two years, I had booked my first feature film because I decided that I'm gonna quit medicine and I'm gonna move to LA and I'm gonna study my ass off, like I do with everything that I take seriously. And yeah, luckily I have a New Mexico agent, Casey Roy, who got me in for the perfect role. It was like a Cal Penn type role, and it was a big feature film across Malin Ackerman, Thomas Jane. I don't know, the puzzle the pieces just fit together. And right after, you know, I was booking Euphoria and Dead to Me and all these things. So I do think like being a doctor does allow you to get into TV quicker because you know how many people I just know one other doctor here in LA. So I'm just competing with one other person to get some of these doctor roles, and I can bring so much realism to that. Do I like playing them? Not really, but I do bring that like I'm doing a feature film next week for three days, and I just know what that character does and what like what are the activities they do. So it's a lot easier transition when you have a specific thing, just like if you're in the military or interior design, anything that's very specific helps.

Jeff Ornstein 7:48

Well, if you're drawing upon these very real personal experiences, it's gonna add that much more credibility to the performance. So, in essence, the saying I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV is your lifestyle in reverse. I am a doctor and I want to play one on TV.

Ash T 8:06

Or I have played one on TV. Excuse me. I always joke with the managers like, sign me up for anything except for a doctoral. Okay.

Jeff Ornstein 8:14

So let me know a little bit about Son of Bikram, because that's something that not only are were you performing in, but you're a creator of.

Ash T 8:23

Yeah, so I met a guy, Johnny Ray Diaz, in my acting class eight years ago. Phenomenal talent. Like he's been a series regular, he's been on guest stars in every major show, Gray's Anatomy. Now, when we were in acting class together, we really gravitated towards each sense each person's dark sense of humor. And so over the years, we've created together you YouTube, humor endorphins, sketches online. And what happened was that both of us were kind of out of work in 2023 when the strike happened. So we were steadily working in TV and film up until that point. And then, oh my gosh, a period of a year goes by. We hadn't worked a single day in a year. Two actors that had been working consistently, and we looked at each other and we said, we gotta do something to break out because this is miserable not working, it's out of our control. Let's figure out what we can do, let's figure out what is in our control. And I co-wrote this with him. He directed it, and I was a lead actor, but it is a dark comedy based upon Bikram Chowdhury, who we watch a Netflix documentary on about being a sexual predator. But this specific dark comedy based in fiction is what happens when this guy who's really obsessed with yoga and Bikram Chowdhury finds out that this guy on TV is accused of sexual assault. How does he deal with that and the circumstances that follow later? I sold my house to make this film because at this point I'm like, one year, I don't want to do this anymore. We got to make something great. And he and Johnny said, Yeah, we got to level up this time. Both of us are submitting films over the years, but this was the one where we thought, okay, let's nail this one out of the park. So we filmed it in four days and it got accepted. I was so surprised. It got into a really prestigious film festival, South by Southwest. But what was more surprising is it won a special jury award. I couldn't believe it. All of these experienced filmmakers that have been doing this for three times as long as I have like, who gets that type of award? That belongs to me. I can't believe that. Or us, me and Johnny. And yeah, it pretty much changed our lives because now we have a production company attached and they want us to make the feature, and we're writing that every day as well. Now, do I like writing and producing? Not really, but you know, like anything to do more acting work is what I say. I will do whatever I need to. I will do the things that I don't want to do. I will wake up every day, and there's gonna be times where I'm like, I r I don't know, man. But like I said, it's the love of acting keeps me going to do things that are way outside my scope and perspective.

Jeff Ornstein 11:04

Well, I have to say, this is a common thread. We've heard from other guests that there are no roles out for there for me, or I've been unable to find a role for me, and they've been told, write your own role. And once they've done that, several of them have found some great success and gotten attention. So good for you. Forgive me. What role did you play in it?

Ash T 11:26

Were you Oh, the lead actor and co-producer and co-writer? Yeah.

Jeff Ornstein 11:32

So does that make were you a bad guy?

Ash T 11:35

I mean, I wasn't a bad guy in this one. In fact, I'm more of the good guy. It's not really the type of role that I would want to play, but I realized that after I did it, but it was so much fun, regardless, being the lead actor. I was like, yeah, this is the feeling of what I'm going for. And now as we're writing it, I'm playing myself as the villain. I'm writing myself as the villain. So yeah, writing the roles that you want to do and then just putting it together, that is the future. And probably it's not even the future, it's probably what everybody's done. Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, Jack Nicholson, Seth Rogan, these are all writer actors. We think of them as actors, but they're probably so great because they were writers. And I wish someone had told me when I started, don't just act, start writing, because that's going to help you get more acting work. I wish I had that advice. So if anything, if anybody's going to quit and become an actor, also write at the same time. That's the advice I'm giving you.

Jeff Ornstein 12:33

That's good advice. I like that. And I hate to say it, but for people who say, I can't write, I'm not a writer, my brain doesn't work that way, you can use a little AI to kind of polish up your writing and your storytelling skills because it's all about storytelling skills. And as an actor, you've got to have some inherent storytelling skills. So if you had someone else prod you a little bit with dialogue and set location and things like that, I think that's a great idea. You know what? I'm going to add that to my daily roster of activities.

Ash T 13:01

But also, I'll say this is that if someone can't write, they can also find a bunch of writers in LA, New York that just want their writing up on screen. So you can ask them, you can be like, hey, could you write something for me? This is what it's about. You find out someone that writes in the way that you like to. I think AI is a little bit tricky because there was just an article in Deadline that said that someone had sold their script, but then they couldn't sell it. They had to give the money back because they'd used AI in it. The metadata had shown that there was AI, and the studio was like, Well, I don't know that we can really use this because it's potentially copyright data. And now we're gonna have to take that back. And we don't know if we can even like sell this on the screen. Yeah.

Jeff Ornstein 13:44

So okay, so listeners disregard previous suggestions. So getting back to you a little bit, you played a character that wasn't necessarily a character you'd want to play every day, but we've talked so oftentimes about typecasting. How do you feel? Have you been typecasted in your previous roles that you've been cast in?

Ash T 14:02

And is that absolutely well? I think it's more of an ego thing for me because it's I always get Indian Doctor. I have been typecasted as that, and I try to avoid it as much as possible. But you know, I was listening to this interview by Taylor Sheridan, the creator of Yellowstone and so many great projects. And he said, if you listen to Hollywood, they will tell you exactly what you should do. And this is something that I just listened to a month ago, and I was like, you know what? Hollywood's telling me to play doctors. Let me just lean into that. Do I enjoy them? Absolutely not. But if Hollywood's telling me that's what I should do, and look, here I am working on another feature next week as a doctor, just because I listened.

Jeff Ornstein 14:42

They say don't fight it, don't fight typecast, because it's real. I had a great monologue I had done when I was studying at Stella where I was a pig farmer. And it was really powerful and I it really moved me. I really felt the pain of this character, sort of an older, simple guy. And I went to do a self-tape to put it on my backstage site. And the guy who was also a manager said, There's no way we're doing this. He's like, Jeff, if someone's gonna cast a pig farmer, you are not going to be that guy. So there are pig farmer actors out there, so forget it. And then I had a friend of mine who's a booking agent, and she said, I could cast you as a pilot all day long. So, okay, so if I'm gonna be a pilot, as that's that's my entree, so be it. So, anyway, so that's very interesting that your real previous career is sort of playing, rearing its head back again in your current career.

Ash T 15:35

It is. And look, because we go to class and we see the work that we do, and it's so great. We want to show the world, hey, we could play anything than what we want to do. We want to play pig farmers, and we love that, yeah. So I think, like in that case, you kind of just got to say, Well, I will make it myself and I'll show you, manager, that like this is what I can do. And you should cast me as this, not just as pilots.

Jeff Ornstein 15:58

I kept on asking my beloved coach, John Corcas, who passed away sadly two years ago. Can I play the bad guy once? Can you make me a mean guy? Like Stella in Street Code Name Desire, Kowalski was supposed to be 65 years old. Look at I'm only 63. I could do that. He's like, you'll play what I give you. And again, I was a dad, a this dad, a that dad. And I finally got my a little bit of who's afraid of Virginia Wolf under my belt. But there are things that you just yearn. You want to kind of just, I want to express myself this way. So it'll be interesting to see in your next few films if you bust out of the doctor and where you come. So when we're looking for you, what are we going to see in Ash? When you're in between your work, I know you said you've been writing. Are you still studying?

Ash T 16:43

Yeah, I study every week for eight years. I've learned Strasbourg, Stella Adler with Arthur Mendoza, who is Benito del Toro's coach, Meisner, and now I'm studying Chekhov. So yeah, I love scene study. It's amazing that I don't get bored of this. Like I was so bored of anatomy and microbiology after the first day, but like acting, I could study this for the rest of my life. And listen, a lot of people don't study every week, but I don't know. I think it's really important because you get to try out different things and like improve your skill at it. And I think it's like a gym, it's a daily gym. You just got to keep working at it.

Jeff Ornstein 17:20

Yeah, there are plenty of people who would say, if you're not working, study. Yeah. And like you, I loved going to class. And unlike you, I was always the oldest person in the class. So and originally I you know you walk into a class and I'm almost invisible since I'm so much older than every other student in the class. And then after one or two scene studies, you feel like, hey, maybe I'll partner with Jeff. This guy's bringing it. And then you earn the respect of the young people. And it's a real exciting turnaround. I also loved it because running a design firm, I always have a lot of young people in the office. And it's my job to mentor them and to explain to them the ways of the world and the professional arena. And when you're acting, you have to take care of yourself and of course bring it for your partner. But I'm really responsible to the director and for my performance. And it's very different than my I hate to say real job, because I don't want to make it sound like it's not a real job, but my other job. So if you could give one advice to people who may not have had as successful a career as you did, but you know, are saying, if I was to go out on a limb and really try and pursue this dream and I fall flat, I could be homeless. I mean, you didn't say you were with roommates, and that was pretty bad the way you presented it. But I mean, the passion that you felt when you really started doing it, and even before you said it took like two years or something before you started getting your mojo, how did you continue to maintain that commitment? Or it was just there, it was just burning in you.

Ash T 18:54

I would say there's a book called Angela Duckworth Grit. Grit and resilience is probably the most important trait any human can have, and that will keep you going forever. Because even when things aren't happening for you, you're just continually putting the reps, showing up, and eventually a path in the universe will open for you. It just has to because you're so determined. And you may not book for three, four, five years. I know people that haven't, and they just keep going, and it's amazing to watch them. They're so passionate, they just keep going because they have grit and they're like, Well, what else am I gonna do? I think the nice thing that I have is I did try another career, so no one can ever say, Well, wow, wouldn't it be better to if I'd just been a doctor? Now I can say that and be like, Yeah, I was, but I think this is the path for me. I definitely I'm not rich at all.

Jeff Ornstein 19:50

I'm just very competent, which comes across loud and clear. And there were plenty of people who would say, When you walk through the door and then an audition, the director and the producers are gonna see that confidence right away. I think that's really important too, to project that air, like, I'm here because I'm supposed to be here. You know, you definitely come across that way to me. What else would you say is a good thing to keep in mind navigating yourself through the times in between jobs? I mean, like, I've found that there's a lot of camaraderie between people like us that are making this change and starting something new, more so than most people would think. What's your experience, Ben?

Ash T 20:30

Yeah, I agree with you. The in-between times are the most difficult times in your life. There's definitely feast and famine. There's times where I'm like, oh man, I'm gonna be a superstar in no time because of all these jobs that I've booked back to back. And then I don't book anything for two years. And that is painful because you're like, did my technique get worse? Is it my headshots? Did I age out? And I think the best thing to do is ignore the time. If you consistently put in work every day on your craft, watching films, watching plays, performing plays, performing scenes, writing, eventually, when those two or three years of purgatory are up, you will start rising again. And I've just seen this in many cycles now. And so during the times that it's super dark and you feel like nothing's happening, no manager, no agent is listening to me, I'm sending these emails, something inevitably hits. I've just seen it over and over again, like it's temporary. You will, if you are persistent and you have grit, things will happen.

Jeff Ornstein 21:40

Well, I also want to talk about your stand up career because I'm so blown away by stand up comedians. I I mean, to get up there, bear your soul, and you're not just out seeking people's approval for a performance like in a play, you're wanting them to respect and appreciate your sense of humor. I mean, it's really personal. So, how How did that start? And where'd you draw the confidence to do that from?

Ash T 22:05

No, I agree. I remember talking to my friend before I started, and I said, I think I gotta try stand-up because I'm so scared of it. And he said, Yeah, it's like one of the hardest things to do. It's like driving a unicycle. And I said, Yeah, but I always aim to try if I'm scared of something, I have to try it because I need to be able to know that I can get overcome my fears. And that's the only reason why I did stand up. I don't enjoy it, but like I just need to go up and bomb a few times. And oh buddy, did I bomb? I bombed so bad that people would come up on stage and say, Wow, you sure do have a lot of confidence for a guy that bombs 100% of the time. And I mean, like, just savage, savage people going after me. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna show these guys. I have this kind of revenge in my belly where I'm like, I'm gonna get good at this eventually. People will laugh. And like that was just open mics. But when I did my first show, I was so persistent of doing open mics every single day, despite it hurting, and despite people making fun of me and getting zero laughs, that by the time I got in front of a crowd of a hundred, I was like, Well, the worst has already happened. No one laughs at my jokes anyway. And surprise, the audience started laughing. I thought, what? How did that happen?

Jeff Ornstein 23:23

Well, tell me a little bit about where so I want to know where do you get your material? I mean, are you telling your own story through a comical lens or are you a one-liner kind of comedian? How does your act go?

Ash T 23:34

Yeah, I think I initially started trying to make things just out of the ether, but then I started to get a little bit more personal with my jokes about being a doctor. The first joke I used to be a doctor, but I quit that job to become a struggling actor. And sometimes people will either laugh or they will just applause or they'll be silent. And if it's silent, I can carry on with the joke and I can say, Yeah, that's how my parents felt.

Jeff Ornstein 24:03

So, like, ask where your parents live. Uh, Texas. So, but you and you mentioned that you were in arranged marriage. So is this a very traditional, culturally traditional family that you're from?

Ash T 24:16

Yeah, apparently it is. But they lived here for their whole life, or not their whole life, but since the 70s. So I would think it was not conservative, but yeah, I was in an arranged marriage, and then I uh actually got an arranged divorce. I haven't figured out the joke there yet, but yeah.

Jeff Ornstein 24:33

Every experience is a learning experience, right? I suspect.

Ash T 24:36

Yeah, yeah.

Jeff Ornstein 24:37

All right, tell me a little bit about your preferences about in your perfect world. Would you perform on television or on stage more?

Ash T 24:47

I would perform in film. I love independent film and I love like blockbuster films, of course. That's my preferred medium. I think you have way more, like in auditions, you can have way more fun with it. What I've seen with TV is you have to be word perfect at most shows, and you don't have as much fun when you're on the set. But I've had so much fun doing feature films. Like, that's my favorite thing to do. Stage is pretty fun as well, especially comedy. I don't like to do dramas on stage, but I like to do comedies. And yeah, I like drama and comedy on film. So we'll see. We'll see about TV. I think TV, I just maybe I haven't gotten to that level where I can have more fun with the roles. Like maybe if I have a series regular, that's a lot of fun to do a series regular on TV, I'm sure. But coming in for one day, you don't know the cast, you don't know the directors, you're kind of the outsider. It's it's like you have to prove yourself every time you come on to that set. And so educate me a little bit, hit baby. What's that medium? This was originally a film festival circuit, and then we put it on YouTube. So it is available on YouTube, which get more views on that. Okay.

Jeff Ornstein 26:00

All right. Well, it has been a pleasure, my pleasure having you here. And I think you're gonna be a big inspiration to a lot of listeners. You can say, if I could get like one-tenth of this guy's confidence, I'm gonna step out and do this. And I think that I was particularly impressed with your humility that it wasn't like, oh, I know I can do this because I know I can do this. You're like, I know I can do this because I really want to do this. And that is, I think, the lesson here that's so important. If you really want it, then you'll do it. And it maybe doesn't happen overnight. You have to be patient. So, and you're clearly a a a man who's focused on success. That that comes across loud and clear. So I'd like you to uh thank you for your time and joining us and sharing your story, which is a unique one. And I want you to always feel free to give us a ring, come back when you've got a project you'd like to share with the public and tell us a little bit about it so we can all keep our eyes and ears open.

Ash T 26:56

Okay, thanks a lot, Jeff. Had a lot of fun here today.

Jeff Ornstein 26:59

All right, me too. Thanks for tuning in to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein. Follow, subscribe, and stay connected to your favorite socials at www.nextact podcast.com. Keep chasing your next act. The best is yet to come.