Jeff Ornstein 0:02

Hi everyone, and welcome to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein. I am Jeff, and on this show we celebrate people on the cusp of greatness. Those building on past successes in some of the curious and inventive and sometimes unexpected ways they have achieved those, and stepping into moments that could define their legacy. We'll talk about current projects, lessons learned, and the extraordinary opportunities ahead. So the best is yet to come. Today's guest is Eric Gaines, a British-French actor, performance capture artist, voice actor, and certified Chubbak coach. From Emily in Paris to Karim to performance capture in Ethelion, Eric has built an international career spanning film, television, gaming, and theater. Eric, welcome.

Eric Geynes 0:49

Thank you. I'm very glad to be here.

Jeff Ornstein 0:51

Okay, so part of our podcast deals with people who have multiple life experiences and it leads them to where they are right now. Yeah. And a lot of our listeners take a lot from that to say, well, how do I put my experiences together or my experience enough? Or when do I know to jump off the cliff and just go for this? So I need to speak to you a little bit about your transition from elite swimming to acting. Can you share a little bit how that went down?

Eric Geynes 1:19

I know. That's a little bit strange. So yeah, I mean, well, I I started I started swimming professionally. I mean, as professional as you can think. It's not a professional sport, but I was swimming five, six hours a day. I had my first contract when I was 15 years old. So everything was about swimming, just completely obsessed with it, as you would do with any sports. So I I was doing that, so nothing else mattered. I was in a special school, and then after that, when I graduated from school, it I kept on competing. And the Federation helped me as well to transition to get like a proper job. So they paid for a business school, which I absolutely hated. But it taught me a lot in terms of marketing, and I use it a lot now as an actor. So I did that for a while. I did quite a lot of different jobs. I worked in events, I worked behind the bar in restaurants. I didn't really know what I wanted to do with myself. I was swimming less and less, just competing whenever I wanted, but not training as much because I realized that you had other things in life than a swimming pool. And I had at the back of my head, I had acting. I've always wanted to act, but I never allowed myself to do it because I come from a very working-class background, and you have to be responsible. You'd have to do something which is going to be safe. So I put that at the on the back burner. And then at some point, I was in a pretty dark place. Didn't know what to do with myself. I was in London and I was working in an office managing people and a lot of pressure. I was having panic attacks. I was really unhappy. Um, and then I needed something to change to to think about something else. I started to do Amdram, then once a week, just like for fun. And then I was, oh my god, I absolutely love it. So the year after I did a bit more and a bit more, and then suddenly I was like, I have to do this because I've never been happier than when I'm doing that. As like I was thinking life is not having panic attacks and doing a job you don't like, even though it's safe and you can pay the rent. So when I turned 30, I auditioned for drama school. And uh, it's funny because I auditioned for the the main three-year theater course and the screen acting course, and I got offered a place on both of them. But then when I chatted with the course directors from both courses, they were saying, We think that you have the life's experience because of the swimming, because you're a bit older, that you can go directly onto the screen acting, which is more specific. And the other one is more when you need to experience life a little bit more. So, in a way, I've always wanted to do it, but it's sort of happened because of circumstances. And but one thing which is important is that since then, even though my situation is not as safe as actors are artists in general, cannot be like super safe financially. I've never been happier and I've never had a panic attack since. I'm not happy every day, but at least I have no doubt about my decisions.

Jeff Ornstein 4:29

That's fantastic. And we had a guest on who said, you know, you have to ask yourself if there's anything else I could do that I get this much joy and happiness from, and not have the pressure of living day to day and job and the fear of rejection. He said, Then do it, because this is not a business for the faint of heart. And it seems like you are golden and set and you made your decision, you're not looking back.

Eric Geynes 4:53

Absolutely, completely. And I do remember, I don't know if you know that quote from Michael Cain who said, acting is not a part-time job, it's not a full-time job, it's a full-time obsession. And that's really absolutely. And I coach, as you mentioned, uh using the Chubak technique. So I'm a certified coach in Ivana's technique. And I'm working with an actor who is really starting out, and we have conversations about that. And I'm saying it's like it's really tough. You cannot have any doubts about doing it because it is so tough. But if it is the right decision, you'll be super happy. And you and if you try it, you can feel it. It's like, as you said, I cannot do anything else. I cannot, I cannot see myself do anything else at all.

Jeff Ornstein 5:37

Well, I want to talk to you about that Chubback technique because I did a little research on it, it's very impressive. And certainly the actors that have practice it are Academy Award winners, Brad Pitt and Shirley Slairzon and Jared Little. I mean, that's some pretty good references for a technique that works. I was not familiar with it before. Can you share a little bit about how it differs from Meisner or Stella and other method actors? Because it seems pretty intense.

Eric Geynes 6:04

So it's based on the all the master's uh teaching. And but the main difference, I think, for me is that I've only managed to modernize modernize the technique, the previous techniques, into something very practical. It's 12 steps of script analysis, of making decisions. But it is modern in the way that it's very good for you, it's very good for the character, it's very good for the actor, because the character or the actor can never be a victim. So, whatever decision you make, it will always be about overcoming something. So we're gonna use our own experience, like most techniques, but we're gonna go to the places where we have to go, it's our job, it's not very enjoyable, but sometimes we have to go there. But then we always overcome them. And what happens is that it's more interesting for the audience when they watching the character's journey, because there's nothing more boring than having a character that is a victim and not trying to overcome that situation and circumstances. You get bored very quickly, it can be fun for a minute. You look at someone crying, and yeah, okay, fine. After 30 seconds, that's it. We want to see someone overcome their circumstances, and it is super safe for the actor as well, because we can work with some very dark material, but then we we feel better and it can be cathartic as well. So it's not a therapy, but it can be cathartic in a safe environment. And yeah, I find it very interesting because it's very structured and I like that. You can do a lot of homework and then you let go.

Jeff Ornstein 7:41

Step 12 is to let go. Now, the founder is based in Los Angeles. Did you study in Los Angeles, or do we have do they have local teaching overseas? How did you pick up on her? Did you do it by teleacting? Tele, however, you think.

Eric Geynes 7:58

Well, he's a friend of mine, Alex Devrient, who is a brilliant actor, whom I've known for years and years. I think I met him in one of my first auditions for The Little Prince, like years and years ago. He told me about the technique, and he said, I've worked with this Swedish coach. So she's a certified coach, Elizabeth Sevholt. And she was doing a workshop in Berlin. So I went and did the workshop for three days, I think. And I really liked it. I really loved it. I read the book and then I started using it more and more. I've worked with Elizabeth a little bit, and then I've worked as well online with Cameron McCormick, who's one of the coaches there, who is absolutely brilliant. And I did it more and more, and I loved the technique so much that I came to LA to work with Ivana for a while. And so that was amazing because obviously that's her technique. And of course, all the coaches really spread the word of her technique. But when you get it from Ivana, she's just like doing shortcuts, and your brain is like, What just happened? And then you have to unravel everything. So that was incredible. And then I went back to Europe and I worked more with Cameron, and then at some point, Cameron was saying, Have you ever thought of coaching? Because because I coach, but more like one-on-one and nothing specific, just my own training. And I was well, no, I haven't done it for that long. And I had a bit of the uh imposter syndrome, but she said, Well, have a look and think about it because you work in France, so you're certified for a specific area, a specific country. So I thought about it. I had a chat with Ivana, and she said, Yep, do the training. So I did the training three months, seven days a week, not just with Ivana, but with all the coaches in the studio. It was seven days a week because we also had some boot camps, which is a specific training that she does with people coming from abroad, and we had a Japanese boot camp and a boot camp from Atlanta. So it was added work for me, but I loved it. So you have you have to take part in some of the classes as a participant and also observe all the other classes so you see everyone's style, and that was insane, that was incredible, exhausting, but I absolutely loved it. It reminded me of the drama school when we can just dedicate 24-7 to your craft. So then I became, yeah, I became certified, and I still work with her tomorrow night. I will be no, actually, not tomorrow, tomorrow afternoon. I'll be seeing Ivana working with a group from France of actors coming for boot camp. And I'll be working with Ivana on Wednesday next week or in the week after. So yeah.

Jeff Ornstein 10:38

It's not uncommon that we find people that are as passionate as you are also passionate about mentoring as well. That it really kind of goes hand in hand because you just want to, I guess you just got to share the love. It seems like but tell me, like you just described, some pretty grueling, lengthy sessions with the coaching. How do you have time to find to audition? And especially you're auditioning on both sides of the pod. I mean, that can't be easy.

Eric Geynes 11:06

No, and no, and sometimes I find myself doing like callbacks at 3 a.m. or 4 a.m. That's a little bit weird. But the things that as we said before, it's just like I don't see myself doing anything else. And well, with time though, you have to make sure you have the right balance between your personal life and your mental health and the work, and because you can be obsessed by something, but me as well, coming from professional sport, sometimes I push it a little bit too far, and I don't see myself, I don't realize how tired I can be. And because I write as well, so I've got like so many plates spinning. But in in terms of like transmission, as you were saying, I love the coaching, I act a lot, and that's what I love. But I love the coaching, and at some point I wanted to give that back a little bit, not just with via coaching, but also I've been writing a book which hopefully should be out this year, and I hesitated because I was well, if you write a book and everything, it doesn't mean that you're really old in your career. I don't know about that, yeah. And it's like the coaching as well, is like, well, I don't just want to be a coach, but it's a fine balance, but it's about identity. But for me, it was very important to write something about feeling like an actor when you're not working, because 80 or 90 percent of the time we're actually not on set, but we're working, we're preparing, we we audition at 3 a.m. in the morning in our tiny places and stuff with lights and a ladder to hold the good camera if you're in a hotel or something or on location. But that's what we do, that's what we love. So I felt that from the beginning, like when I wasn't working, it was difficult, especially at the beginning of my career. Someone would ask you, What do you do? And you say, I'm an actor. Well, what have you been? You know, where have I seen you? And it's just like, oh, I don't know what to say. So there is that feeling which is important. It's not because you're not on set that you're not an actor. So I've created this series of 365 tiny exercises that you do once a day. It's called the constant actor. And it's really about a little bit of about acting technique, but a lot as well about the industry, a lot about mental health, a lot about your own identity. So every single day you feel like you're an actor.

Jeff Ornstein 13:30

So we have had other guests on. They talk about the difference between New York and Los Angeles in terms of the kind of job auditions you'll go on, the kind of people you'll be surrounded with, and the kind of work you might be likely to nail and get out.

unknown 13:45

Yeah.

Jeff Ornstein 13:46

But now we've got a guess where I mean, you're in New York, you're in LA, you're in London, you're in France. Do you find if there's a a different approach or attitude when you audition for something in a different country like that?

Eric Geynes 13:58

So there are bits and bobs which are different, but everything is sort of merging a little bit more, and people are a little bit more understanding, I would say. Something as simple as doing a slate is slightly different. The first time I auditioned for the US, the slates were I didn't realize that it was much simpler in the US than in Europe. In Europe, we talk about ourselves and just like working on this and that and the other. So it's to discover the person a little bit more. And we never say what character we audition for as well, because they transfer that slate, they could transfer that slate to another character. But in the US, very often, I mean, I don't do it, but I heard that very often people do. I'm gonna be reading for this character, for example. So you've got the main thing I would say is more about the attitude of the casting directors, which is quite different between Europe and the US. Unfortunately, in Europe, very often, in particular in France, a little bit less in the UK. And I I get that from casting directors I know, but the pressure is on them to create lists as opposed to seeing a lot of people. It's not so much the production company, but the distribution or the networks are going to say, I want to see this amount of people who have done this amount of show, you know, in this on this network, etc. etc. So it's they it's really much harder for them to discover new people. In the US, it's much different. It really feels like the casting directors want to find someone they haven't seen before. So people are much more open when I started. Well, of course, I had a body of work when I started in the US, which wasn't the case in Europe. But but people are very responsive to the material I send. So also I can see as well the number of people opening and checking when I said something on my reel, etc. And in the US, people are much more keen on watching and answering and creating a relationship than they are in Europe. But otherwise, the work itself, especially for TV, I mean quality TV, drama, that sort of thing, is pretty much the same.

Jeff Ornstein 16:06

So you've been involved with Emily in Paris, which is, I think, everyone's favorite show. I've never met anyone who's seen it or didn't fall in love with it. Can you share any insight those stories you can share about that?

Eric Geynes 16:18

Well, I was just a guest on that, but it's funny because in the US I get recognized because of that. And I'm not really I've done so much more work than just like guest on Emily in Paris. But I'm fine with it and it's fun. I think it's like a sweet thing. It's it's like a cake, like a sort of French cupcake. Um, an a paint au chocolat or something like that, or macaron. So, I mean, one thing I could say that the fitting, I've never had a fitting like that. Because you know the show, it's it's all about design and clothing and etc. And production design in general, but clothing is so important. And my character was representing this brand, Turner and Asket. So, you know, the guy has to be quite stylish and everything. And they booked me for the fitting for like five, six hours. I was like, what? I've never had like such a long fitting, and I went there, and then I understood why, because they made me try absolutely everything they had. The place was huge, and it was like a really nice hotel particulier, kind of fancy place, and they had shoes and clothing absolutely everywhere. We had drinks and strawberries and stuff. So that was really good fun. And then on sets, well, as I'm sure, it's always difficult when you're a guest on a show, you just arrive and it's like crashing a family party or something. But the feeling was really nice, that everyone was very welcoming, and it was interesting to work with Lily and because we uh we created some sort of little things which weren't in on paper, so that was very nice, and I could feel the fact that both of us have worked in the UK or in the US, there's something that we understand, and so that was lovely, I loved it.

Jeff Ornstein 18:03

Okay, so with no disrespect to Emily in Paris, I am gonna do 180 here because you've been wanting or have been focused on telling stories centered on environmental and social justice issues. Slightly different than Pitty and Think.

Eric Geynes 18:20

Although you can find some stuff inside, I'm sure. But yeah, the main thing. Yeah.

Jeff Ornstein 18:24

Is there a particular cause right now that you really would love to get out there and represent as an actor in an actor's role?

Eric Geynes 18:30

I mean, I try to, because I come from a working class background and I do coach, etc., but I do mentor as well. So I do mentoring. I'm following some younger filmmakers, not necessarily actors, but it's just like we we catch up on a regular basis and talk about the industry. So whenever I can, I sort of try to connect them to some industry professionals. I remember what Armand Lacroix, who is a young filmmaker, came with me to a festival where I was a jury member member of the jury, and he loved it. So it's sort of to build the confidence whenever they have questions, I can sort of answer those. Or if I don't have the answer, I will go and get the answer for them. So that's something so enjoyable. I absolutely love it. Love it. As I said, it sort of sort of makes me feel a little bit old, but it doesn't matter. It really feels like I can give something back.

Jeff Ornstein 19:25

Yeah. So I'm I think that's wonderful. And the one of the things that really attracted me to when I started in theater and my studies was how community-oriented the theater profession truly is. So it doesn't, I think the more passionate you are about it, the maybe the more it makes sense that you're more committed to a community that thrives with support from one another. I mean, of course we've gone over time, which is my chatty self and your chatty self. I knew you'd be okay. So you've been in all different kinds of media, and your book and your writing and your mentoring, I mean you really got your hands in lots of different parts. First of all, is the book about the life of an actor, or is it about acting techniques? What will the book entail?

Eric Geynes 20:10

So it's a it's a very practical book. So it's a series of 360 exercises. So each exercise is less than 10 minutes, or you can make it longer. But the the intention was to make sure that it fits in someone's busy life, whether you're on set, whether you're not working, and you've got like a side job, you have to be able to do it regularly because for me that's the key from the sport as well. It's like you have to do it every day, even if it's five to ten minutes. So the intro is a little bit, there is a little bit about my background and how I got there. But I think the journey, my journey, I will share it more on the side with a podcast or something like that. Because in the book, I wanted something to be super practical. Like you pick up the book, you open it, you can follow something, or you can just like pick and choose whatever you need on that day. So you do have sort of blocks and parts of it. So one is really acting technique. So some of the exercises you might know from drama school, and some of the others, I just make them up. And I've designed yeah, I've devised them when I was learning, and I was like, oh, that that works for me. Maybe that's gonna work for some somebody else. Some of the exercise as well is just to devise your own exercise and find what you need because not all shoes fit all. And another part is gonna be about the industry to make sure that you follow some casting directors or industry professionals where to find them, etc. etc. So it's a bit of everything. Obviously, you cannot go too much into detail in one thing, otherwise, it would be like a series of 10 books. What I get from the the publishers is that it sits in between different things, which is a space which doesn't exist yet. So it's not like just an acting technique book, and it's not just an industry book, for example, and it's not just mental health advice. It's a little bit of everything.

Jeff Ornstein 22:07

Well, I think I have to say, I love that idea of 360 short little exercises that people can find time to take on, and then they will be with you, and you can reflect on that day, the next day, the next month, and all this is the culmination of all those little exercises that unveil or reveal to you different components as to who you are as an actor or who you how do you gonna get to where you want to be? I think that's a terrific idea. Yeah. I'm gonna want to read this book. So promise me after when your book is published, you'll call back up our producers and we'll be back on the show and we will talk about it a little bit further at up in my homework.

Eric Geynes 22:47

Yeah, you've got it, as you say. We never say that, but I'll reach out.

Jeff Ornstein 22:51

Please do. Eric, it was a pleasure having you on. I wish you all the best and good luck with that book, and definitely get back to us.

Eric Geynes 22:58

Thank you very much. I enjoyed it very much.

Jeff Ornstein 23:00

So long. Thanks for tuning in to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein. Follow, subscribe, and stay connected to your favorite socials at www.nextdackpodcast.com. Keep chasing your next act. The best is yet to come.