Jeff Ornstein 0:01

Hi everyone, and welcome to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein. I am Jeff, and on this show we celebrate people on the cusp of greatness. Those building on past successes in some of the curious and inventive and sometimes unexpected ways they have achieved those, and stepping into moments that could define their legacy. We'll talk about current projects, lessons learned, and the extraordinary opportunities ahead. So the best is yet to come. Today's guest is Sam Humphrey, actor, producer, motivational speaker, and disability advocate, best known for playing Tom Thumb, alongside Hugh Jackman in The Greatest Showman. From growing up in New Zealand to building a career in Hollywood, Sam now uses his platform to speak openly about faith, mental health, resilience, and representation. Sam, it's good to have you on.

Sam Humphrey 0:52

Hi, thanks for having me. It's an honor and a privilege to be here.

Jeff Ornstein 0:56

Okay, excellent. So being from, I mean, of course, there are a lot of people from Australia, certainly a lot of Australians and New Zealand oursel became big stars in the States. But you mentioned it was a dream come true to be able to work with Hugh Jackman. I mean, was it because he's such a talent or he's such a nice guy?

Sam Humphrey 1:16

Well, I think the reason I always wanted to work with him is both. But I saw Shee Jackman on the big screen and on television when I was like eight years old. And something about his, I don't know, his charisma and the character he was playing. So I saw him as Wolverine and X-Men. And just something about that really junk out at me. And when I was watching him play that character, I just always wanted to, well, first off, I wanted to be Wolverine. I mean, what I, you know, didn't want to be Wolverine, he had cores. And I actually made my own cause out of cardboard. And I would run around my house, I would pretend to be Wolverine. And then when I looked into him more, I found out that he was an actor. Like he wasn't Wolverine. The Wolverine was just a character. And he was Huge Jagman and he was an actor. And when I looked into him more, I found that he was a philanthropist, he was a really great guy. He had such an amazing character about him in the industry. And that was something that really resonated with me. And so I wanted to be just like him. And so that led me into a pursuit of acting. There's a lot more to the reason why I got into acting, but he was one of the biggest catalysts for why I delved into acting.

Jeff Ornstein 2:38

Well, I gotta tell you, like this is a podcast about second acts, which can be concurrent with what your the life's travel, the path, the journey that you've been on, or it can be as a result of and combining, conjoining skill sets and experiences. But what's really fascinating about your journey is that you've taken passions that are very important to you, mental health, your own physical challenges that you've had, and as well as representation. And you then conjoined it with the theater. So why don't we talk a little bit about that? What was it about your wanting to be a voice for mental health issues and those struggling with it?

Sam Humphrey 3:21

Yeah. I think one of the most important things about why I decided to be a mental health advocate is because growing up, when you're a little person, you look at the world, and that's where my face becomes evidently very important to me as a little person and someone who faces all these challenges and troubles. But as someone in as a little person in this world where everyone is struggling and everyone is facing these types of challenges, you look at the world and you think, I don't belong. I'm not like everyone else. And it's true that everyone can say that, but as a little person, you look at how this world is designed, how this world has been created, and you think it hasn't been designed for me. It's not designed for me to succeed in a way with all of these different programs and having a career and having relationships and all these kinds of things. And when I was growing up, I struggled with my identity. Who was I? And I allowed the world to tell me who I was rather than discovering that internally. And that's again where my faith comes in is that I allow my faith, uh, God who I serve, is I allow Him to give me my identity. And one of the most important things is that from my faith, it tells us that we are not the thoughts and the lies that we tell ourselves or we allow the world to tell ourselves. Like you are bigger, you have a purpose, you have an identity, you're not stupid, you are intelligent. So it's all these things that we allow the world to put on us that forms our identity. And I believe that unless we break those cycles and we help other people to really understand that those are not our own thoughts, but the thoughts that we've been conditioned to believe and the lies that the world and society has told us to keep us small and not really embrace our true calling and our purpose, then the world is going to keep us small and keep us dumped down. And so I think allowing others to acknowledge the mental health that, you know, mental health strat that they fall into is very important. And so that's why I spread mental health. Yeah, I'm a little tongue-tied, but you get a point.

Jeff Ornstein 5:47

Well, it is interesting because I mean the industry as a whole has a way of kind of taking stripping people of their identities and making them more fragile sometimes, or having people under such intense scrutiny that again it increases their mental fragility. But when you think about the artists that frequently speak about mental health issues and faith, and I was thinking like Denzel Washington, Emma Stone, Ryan Reynolds, they speak about mental health issues, Viola Davis, Natalie Portman, people like that, they speak about faith issues. So those are stories that are pretty grounded. So you can see how like getting topics to the forefront, recognizing them and addressing them, and with faith, seeing the value in them, has done several stars have done very well to have them keeping them at the forefront of their career. So I suspect it's probably the same with you. That's what sort of serves as a center.

Sam Humphrey 6:48

Yeah, yeah. I mean, absolutely. I think ultimately when you go and do something as big as what I've done, and being in the assurement, and then you come off that, and sometimes you wonder, like, what is the next big thing? And I found that my faith has been the center of everything that I do, whether or not it's I'm in front of cameras or I am taking my own personal time to discover what success is. Because I think it always comes back to what is success and what does the world tell us success is, versus what I think from a faith perspective, what that tells us what success is. And I think when you focus on the only the external perspective of what success is, it can become a very lonely and very isolated place to be. And that's what I found because honestly, when I talk about what I've done and being in the greatest showman, everyone's everyone, you know, asked me, what was that like? And that was an experience like no other. It was incredible. I met people and I had the best time of my life. But then coming off the greatest showman, it was something that I had always prayed externally to prove my value and my worth to the world and to myself. But then coming off the greater showman, I found myself asking questions like, I found myself asking questions as what does that really mean to me? Like, have I proved my worth? Have I proved my validation? And externally, maybe I did, but internally I still felt lost. I still felt like I didn't know who I was, like to my own core identity. And that was something real that really sent me on a journey of discovering who I was outside of the external validation and outside of what the world and culture and society was telling me that I was, even though I had quote unquote risen to this fame and all that. And I found that didn't actually really mean anything to me ultimately.

Jeff Ornstein 8:55

So do you uh share this on television, or do you are you a podcaster, or are you giving uh live seminars? How are you able to get your message out and share with people how important faith has been and how it's impacted you?

Sam Humphrey 9:10

So currently how I am spreading my message is through amazing, incredible people like yourself having me on their podcast. I am currently working on writing my autobiography. I am working on setting up speaking engagements, and I'm actually working on how to set up a tour to go on speaking engagements around the country and around the world. I'm sort of looking at how to get in front of churches because I think my message is very important to churches. But those are different avenues that I'm looking at, how to get in front of those people and those stages to be able to talk about that. It's just it's something that has really helped me going back to the mental health aspect. I know faith isn't necessarily for everyone, but I really believe when you get down to the foundational core elements of what faith is about, you really begin to understand it, really does help the mind because one thing that it says in the Bible is that renew, you have to renew your mind. And so, like, that's just another way to say like focus on the thoughts that you're telling yourself, focus on your mindset. That's just another way of saying that. And there's so many incredible, amazing nuggets of wisdom and truths in the Bible, and that's why I am really into studying and reading the Bible, because that is my core center of everything that I am.

Jeff Ornstein 10:34

So I think that few would argue that against regardless of what your idea of faith is and how you pursue your faith, having a deep understanding within yourself would help you then really be get to the core of a lot of different characters so that you could portray them with the most authenticity. So I think it's listening to you speak and sharing the values that it brings to you, the doors that it opens, you know, spiritually and emotionally, that a lot of people from all walks of life would benefit from that, in particular the actor, because it is so important to lay yourself bare and absorb the character so that you can live it. So are you still pursuing film and television roles or are you focusing more on your speaking? Where are you now in your career development?

Sam Humphrey 11:28

Yeah, so when it comes to acting and film and television, I am still pursuing that in a sense that I haven't completely shut that down, but I'm not like pouring all my energy and my time into it. I have my teams, I have people that reach out to me and offer me jobs and things like that. And actually, I have one coming up next week, which is a recording job. So I will be doing that. I haven't completely shut myself off for that, but I believe that my purpose now, like with everything that I've gone through, is to speak my message and to show people that ultimately my message is that you are not a mistake. You can take whatever your perceived weaknesses are and they can become your strengths. So, because when I was growing up and when I was a child, I grew up in church, and the message of the Bible and the gospel was always that God is perfect. And for me, when I heard that, I always wondered that if he's so perfect, then why am I the way I am? Because I'm sure I'm not like everyone else. Like, and so I always wondered, am I a mistake? And I went through a life really long time, and I would say, to be completely honest, it's only been in the last few years that I've really started to understand the skill of it, I'm not a mistake, that I am who I am for a reason. So my message is to tell everyone that they are not a mistake, that the perceived weaknesses they had can be the strengths.

Jeff Ornstein 12:58

Well, I think a lot of the people watching or listening to this will take a lot from them because there are people that are contemplating a second act and don't necessarily have the courage or the confidence within to go out and do it. And what we found from a lot of our guests, the experiences they've shared, and then the comments that come back from our listeners is that when I listened to this story, it empowered me. So, you know, you've succeeded with this internal conflict of feeling less than perfect, some other physical challenges. I noticed that you speak up about concerning Crohn's disease, and also understanding that some of the questions you have about your own worthiness you feel probably may be valid and are being thrust upon other people in the little person community, and you have overcome it. So to the actresses with the slightly imperfect nose, which seems so shallow and inconsequential, just being the authentic person you are and believing in yourself can propel you. And look at you, you were in a global blockbuster. I think it's terrific. And I think the people listening will see that as well.

Sam Humphrey 14:13

Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the things is that if we understand that we all have things about ourselves that we don't like or we don't value, or we don't see as worthy, but I think when we again it goes back to words have power, and so what you speak over yourselves will come true. So we have to use our tongue to speak positive words and speak affirmations that we are intelligent, we are smart, we are strong, we are capable. And to say that, like going back to saying that I've overcome it, yes, I've overcome some things, but I am still overcoming. I still have a lot of things that I fight against on the daily. Like what you see here is like a work in progress. I still have days where I feel depressed. I still have have days where I feel unworthy, I still have days where I'm like, I'm I'm 32. I'm like, I'd love to be in a relationship. But there are days where I'm like, can I be in a relationship? I'm a little person. Does someone see me as a potential partner? So there's things that I still wrestle with that other people might take for granted. So I think it's when we look at what gratitude is, you have to be grateful for the things that you have and focus on what you have and what you can do rather than the things that you don't have and the things you can't do. Because when you do well on the negative, there's a self-fulfilling prophecy. So focus on the positive, and that is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Jeff Ornstein 15:46

Well, if I may add my two cents, there's someone for everyone, regardless of shape, size, color, language, economic status. There's definitely someone for everyone. I'm a firm believer in that. So, and it's all about timing. And maybe a lot of people need to look within and find happiness and contentment within, and then that opens up, that shines through, and the people they're around see that contentment, and they will say, Yeah, I want what he's having.

Sam Humphrey 16:18

I mean, that is the journey that I'm yelling on that now.

Jeff Ornstein 16:21

Right. Well, that's fantastic. I mean, and that journey could be a lifelong journey. So, and like enjoy the journey, right? There's something to learn every day. Every experience, I also firmly believe that every experience is a valuable experience. Even if it's something that teaches you what you want to avoid or don't do, there's value in that. Or if it's something that shows, oh wow, here's a hidden strength I didn't know I possessed, or talent or skill. So you gotta just enjoy every minute because it can be unexpected surprises that come at you along the way that you're not in control of, but you are in control of your own inner peace and solace. So are you in the United States right now or are you down under? Where are you?

Sam Humphrey 17:02

So I've been in the United States actually for the last nine years now. I live in Los Angeles.

Jeff Ornstein 17:09

Okay. Are you represented in Los Angeles?

Sam Humphrey 17:13

So I currently have a manager, however, I don't have an agent at this current time. I've kind of been going through different agents because, as you see, I am a very unique type of talent. And so a lot of the agents I call them haven't fully understood or been able to call that. And a lot of the times what I find is we kind of get to a certain point where they go, oh, sorry, we don't really know how to squeeze you into the industry. So to be fair on you, we think that you should maybe move on and find someone who really kind of understands how to market you. And that's kind of been one of my core problems throughout my entire career. No one really knows how to market me.

Jeff Ornstein 18:00

Well, forgive me because I don't know his name because I wasn't a spectator of that show. But the little person in Game of Thrones, I mean, he reached incredible success and sex symbol status, in fact. I think the whole world just wants to soak him up and be around him and watch him. And he's a very commanding presence on screen.

Sam Humphrey 18:21

Yeah, Peter Dinklage. I mean, he's actually someone that I really admire, considering that he's also a little person. And actually, in bringing that up, the funny thing is uh the fact that I found like uh inspiration in Chi Jackman, which led me into acting, is funny because I'm surprised that I didn't really, I mean, at the time I didn't really know Peter Dinklage. But now when I look at like who my inspirations are, like Peter Dinklage is one of the biggest inspirations for who I would like to map my career after. And I mean, and one of the other things is that I'm finding that I'm really passionate about in terms of acting is actually creature work. I'd had the opportunity to do creature work throughout my career a few times. There's a few projects that I've been in that I've done creature work, and I find it actually the most fulfilling. Even though I'm not visible to the camera, it's just a different type of skill set and it's a different type of talent that you really have to wrap your head around. And that's something that I'm looking to pursue more in the future, if that is something that comes up, especially when it comes to Star Wars. Star Wars has been one of my lifetime goals that I would like to, you know, be in. And I was in Star Wars full character scenes in Skeleton Clube, but I'm looking to hopefully land a role in the future films, if that is an opportunity that I can land.

Jeff Ornstein 19:47

Well, Sam, we're grossly over schedule, but I just love listening to you and all of your enthusiasm and your passions and your searches. I think you're going to make a big mark because you've sounds like a lot of commitment to all of these things, to the mental health issues, to faith, to entrepreneurship, to producing, to performing. I mean, you light up when you speak about all of them. So we're going to keep you on our radar here at Next Act. And I want you to always feel free to reach back out to us. If you have an exciting project and you want to share it with the listeners, we'd love to have you back.

Sam Humphrey 20:19

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. When my book is ready to publish and is gone to be released, I'll let you know. And the same thing with any of my speaking engagements as well.

Jeff Ornstein 20:31

Okay, terrific. Sam, thanks again and have a wonderful day.

Sam Humphrey 20:35

You too. Take care. Have a good one, Jeff.

Jeff Ornstein 20:37

Thanks for tuning in to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein. Follow, subscribe, and stay connected to your favorite socials at www.nextdackpodcast.com. Keep chasing your next act. The best is yet to come.