Jeff Ornstein 0:01

Hi everyone, and welcome to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein. I am Jeff, and on this show we celebrate people on the cusp of greatness. Those building on past successes in some of the curious and inventive and sometimes unexpected ways they have achieved those, and stepping into moments that could define their legacy. We'll talk about current projects, lessons learned, and the extraordinary opportunities ahead. So the best is yet to come. Today's guest is Christopher Gaunt, actor, producer, director, and writer at Shazy Lake Productions, who made a bold transition from a 32-year corporate career at Procter Gamble into the world of film and television. With over 50 IMDB credits and experience across acting, producing, directing, and writing, he is now building his second act in entertainment while bringing a business mindset into the creative world. Welcome, Chris. How are you doing? Thank you, Jeffrey. Pleasure to be with you and next act podcast. Well done. Thanks for having me as a guest. You're very welcome. Well, you are precisely the kind of person we want to feature because your experience will be resonate with the people who are our listeners. We live in a very fast-paced world. The economics are such that there's a people appreciate safety nets, but to boldly step out of something you've done for 15, 20, 25 years and go into a completely new field, it takes confidence, it takes guts, it takes support, and clearly the planets aligned for you because you did great in your first career and you're doing great in your second career. So I'm going to share a little bit about you so our listeners can get a feel as to who you are and what you did. Chris spent 32 years at Procter Gamble, leading North American hospitality segment, which is something we share in common, being a hospitality designer, won the William Proctor Sales Mastery Award, one of the company's top global honors. And then he transitioned in 2018 from corporate leadership to full-time entertainment career. Congratulations, kudos. We want to hear a lot about how that all went down and the highs, the lows, the good, the bad, the ugly. You've also been a voracious auditioner, it seems. And by having been so, you've been featured in over 50 films and as well as deep involvement in nonprofit work and community service. So, one of the first questions we have is what was the prompt after having this great career, award-winning recognition from your peer group, to say, I'm gonna walk away from this and start something that is notoriously not well-paying and not secure. It takes guts.

Chris Gaunt 2:51

A very circuitous career path for sure. Yeah, I think the prompt was just that. I had a very, I was very fortunate, worked very hard, had some fantastic mentors along the way to help champion my career, Jeffrey. But for me, it was kind of achieving the pinnacle of growth that I could achieve during my last business assignment with PG. And that was leading our North American hospitality segment, which I loved. And that's something we have in common. I was fortunate enough to receive that Global Mastery Award, one of only four or five people in the world to get that. So I felt after that, you can always continue to grow, but I really felt like I kind of reached the top of that mountain at that time in my life. And I had a soul-searching moment or moments where I decided with support of not only myself wanting to do it, but also my wife of 35 years and my children to go ahead and kind of go for this and do this. And I did that. So for me, it was looking for a new challenge, looking for something to really get the engines revved up and the motor running every morning, like I used to feel when I was in the more of a corporate world with a traditional business world. But I really wanted to be able to express myself creatively and do something totally different and something I'd always had to keep passionate about. And I shared that passion with my family. We have a passion for film, we have a passion for good television, we have a passion for the arts in general, whether it's theater or drawing or painting, et cetera. So we love that work. So if it wasn't athletics, it was doing something artistically or watching something and then talking about it with my family. And that carried over in my relationship with my my wife and children and friends. So I knew when I left PG, that's what I wanted to do to scratch that creative itch that really wasn't scratched during a more traditional business assignment.

Jeff Ornstein 4:40

Well, it's interesting because being a designer for hospitality and now transitioning in part to theater, they're both storytelling. Hospitality is always telling a story. And it's different, but it's similar. There are similar creative juices that are flowing. And I can certainly appreciate once you achieve a pinnacle, you're like, well, where do I go from here? Do I need to hit this pinnacle again? Will it be as meaningful and significant if I do it a second time? So but it still takes courage to step out of your box. And there are people out there listening who are going to say, Do I have the guts to do this? And the support. And it sounds like you had some terrific support from your family, which is really important. Really important. So the reality in acting is you don't get every role you audition for, right? So there is a lot of rejection. Uh and as you and I both know, a casting agent once told me they'll pull call in a hundred people for a role. Her words were 90 of them suck, 10 of them are great, and you're one of the 10. And the fact if you don't get it has nothing to do with your skills, it's just not the chemistry that the director or the producer is looking for. Nevertheless, it can still be discouraging a little bit. When you got out of the gate, did you have any secret special sauce that helped you deal with rejection?

Chris Gaunt 6:06

Couple of things, Jeffrey. Great question. And I hear this question a lot when I'm talking to folks like you, as well as people that are getting into the business and peers in this business. And rejection is tough, right? But I think in 32 years in a more traditional corporate business world, man, you get a lot of it. And especially in the sales arena. So I think the good news for me, if that's good, is that I had developed a very thick skin prior to jumping into this career path. Where if I heard an oh or I was rejected, I wasn't absolutely devastated, tucked in a corner. And instead, it's brush yourself off, right? Learn as much as you can from the rejection. And often in the acting side of this business, you hear nothing. You go into in front of a casting director, you lay it on the line, you do the best job you possibly can. And it's not like they're calling you and saying, gee, Chris, we really loved you and all, but here's why you didn't get the role. Typically in the acting field, you hear nothing. So that could even be a little more discouraging and a little more disheartening if you let it get to you. So the way I handled that is I had a thick skin anyway. But for those that may not have had that thick skin built up, is please take advice from me who's done so many auditions over the years and others as well. Don't take it personally or try your best not to take it personally. You hit it right on the head. Nivey may not be right for the role, 10 may be right, but of those 10, the casting director wants to pick one because their job relies on that to do a good job as a casting director, but that's still pretty poor odds. And I follow a woman who's an actress on social media and she does a great job every year, Jeffrey, clocking and measuring the number of auditions that she does, the number of callbacks that she gets, and the number of callbacks that actually lead to a job. And one of the hardest working grinding actors out there, and the callback that leads to a job is in the single digits. It's like seven percent. So you might admission, you may audition a thousand times and you may get six, seven rolls. If that. So it's really difficult. So I think if you develop that mindset, that there chances are you may not get this, but go in there completely prepared. Maybe give it your best, your absolute best, know that you've laid it on the line, you've done your best, and then let the chips fall where they may, because it's not a guarantee. And there's so many things outside of your sphere of influence or control that you cannot control, so many variables, you just can't take it personally.

Jeff Ornstein 8:34

The director could have, or the writer who could be sitting right next to the director, could have molded the role after her Uncle Ernie. And if your Uncle Ernie was 300 pounds and you're 170, you're down three notches automatically. So probably not gonna get that role.

Chris Gaunt 8:50

Probably not. One of the first acting roles that I got, one of the first acting roles I got, I was cast. I thought I did a fairly good job in the audition, but the young lady called me back. It was her film based on a family member, and she said, You did a pretty good job in the audition, but you look very similar to my father, and your hairstyle is almost exactly like his. So then you think, I landed on the line auditioning my tail off, but I'm getting cast because I look facial recognition and my hairstyle, but whatever. Right, I got the role. Right. So however you get it, and then you do the best you can.

Jeff Ornstein 9:21

We've had that conversation too. I had a monologue that I was putting, I wanted to put on one of my self-tapes, and it was a simple-minded pig farmer from the south, and he makes a move on a high school girlfriend from 50 years ago, and it goes south quickly. And it was a pretty good performance, I think. And when I went to tape it, my self-tape fellow said, We're not doing that. I'm like, No, no, I think it's pretty good. He's like, You're not gonna get cast as a pig farmer ever. On no planet, will you be a pig farmer? There are pig farmers, guys that look like pig farmers out there, they don't need you. So and you're not one of you're gonna look for the guy with the wart and the nose hair and the hot belly. And that led us to type. So a woman I know, very successful casting director, says, You can't fight type, don't even try and escape it. So she's like, I could cast you as a pilot all day long. So if you had a haircut and you had whatever else were the configurations that had a dad quotient to it, you know, it's sort of silly to fight it. And I think that some people are so desperate to show their range, better to take in the parts. And if you might be the dad 10 roles in a row, but then you'll get exposure.

Chris Gaunt 10:34

And I think the first five or ten, maybe 15 films, I was the dad. Yeah, I've been a dad a lot. I was a dad, but that's okay. You're working, right? They said yes, you're in front of casting crew, you're learning, you're making connections, it's a wonderful experience, typically. So be the dad, embrace the dad. There's an opportunity where you can be something else, but that's fine.

Jeff Ornstein 10:53

No, they're gonna see some chemistry between you and the other actors, another casting director or producer, and say, if we put a mustache on him, he could be the villain. It's just about the exposure. The interesting thing also, when you talk about developing the thick skin, is that we've had people talk about casting directors, their job to cast a show, a production. So if they're calling you with any regularity, you could be their bankroll. So even if they call you 10 times and you don't get any jobs, that's out of their control. Not entirely, but for a good part of it. But the fact that they're calling you means they see something in you that you're going to be right one of these days.

Chris Gaunt 11:38

Yes. So and even in my notes along that line, I have and I'm looking at it right now. So great prompt is that just because you don't get a particular role for whatever you're auditioning for, go in, be on time, be professional, be courteous, make a positive first impression on the casting director or the tenth impression on him or her. You will get cast eventually. There will be a role where you fit the role. There's so many stories I could share where famous actors, good Hollywood actors or New York actors go in and go in. No, but there's a role that opens up because they're a fantastic actor and they fit the type.

Jeff Ornstein 12:18

You touched on something that was also important that other people have spoken about, and I like your take on it. It's been suggested on this program that when you walk in onto stage to announce yourself and do your monologue, that you should be you, that they should be getting a sense of you the minute they lay eyes on you. And don't walk out there a blank slate. Walk out there and be conveying your personality immediately. You're gonna take on the role, but you've only got so many minutes or seconds in front of these people. So let them learn as much as possible. And some people aren't that easily embracing that I'm gonna express myself from the moment I step on stage. But we're hearing that more time and time again. That's really the best way to approach it. Get maximize your time.

Chris Gaunt 13:03

I concur. If you're lucky, you have a minute or two or three in front of a really good casting director because they're seeing a lot of you for that role. So give them a reason to say yes, give them a reason to love you for that role immediately. Their job is to hire someone because that makes them employed. Their livelihood depends on casting that role. So I think a lot of us as actors were intimidated by casting directors thinking I'm not good enough. I'm never gonna part. They don't like me for whatever reason. I'm not the right guy in this case for the role. Wrong. Go in as though you own that stage. That is your three minutes or your two minutes. You're in a play and you're the lead. You have that time to convey to them that you're the right person for the role, and then lay it on the line and let the chips fall where they may. But I agree. People typically buy from people they like and trust, make a positive first impact.

Jeff Ornstein 13:57

All right, so the producers wrote in my notes for me that many most people see acting as creative, but you approach it like a business. So can you elaborate on that a little bit? Compartmentalize the business aspects and how you see your acting career.

Chris Gaunt 14:12

Absolutely. So I'll broaden it a little bit. Acting is a business, producing is a business, directing is a business, and writing is a business. So I think a lot of creatives that I've dealt with, particularly if I'm on the other side of the camera, if I'm producing something or I've written something, or I'm directing all three, they are unbelievably creative. They're incredibly creative, but they don't really come in with that business mindset. So what I want to do is shift that paradigm, not me alone, others, of course, but recognize that there is a lot on the line. If you are cast in a whether it's a short film, a feature film, an episodic, or a theatrical stage production, there are so many people behind you that need you to succeed. There's a lot of money on the line, typically. Even if it's a short, independent film, there's people have been grinding away for months or years writing this, trying to get it up on its feet, producing it, find the people to produce it, find the crew that will shoot it. They all need to be paid, right? Most of them, unless it's a passion project. But even then, you want to do your best. It is a business. So if you're not prepared as an actor, if for whatever reason you're fumbling and bumbling along when you're on set, when it's your time to shine, and you're not prepared, there are people looking at you and they're not exactly happy with you. There's a director that's not happy, there's a producer that's not happy, you're wasting the cruise time. So be prepared. And also, and lastly, typically this product needs to be packaged up with a nice red bow on it and either sold or seen by someone. So most of us in this business don't make something that we don't want someone to see, whether that's seen as a nonprofit or for-profit, i.e., selling tickets or selling it in contribution, that's money. So it is absolutely from the very first day it's a business. So you can have your creative spark, you can keep that creative spark and that passion, but just remember behind the scenes, this is a well-oiled machine that that's millions. Think about the entertainment industry. Even a relatively small independent film can cost 15, 20 million dollars to make. That's just to make it then to market it and get into distribution, you're looking at 40, 50, 60 million dollars before anyone sees it. So it's a huge business. Okay.

Jeff Ornstein 16:27

We don't want to intimidate those newbies that are just starting out. I'm gonna do the weak leak here. But it's interesting though, because you're absolutely right. And I started my studies at Stella Adler, and there was a mantra there stay in your lane. You're the actor, don't try and direct, don't try and write, be prepared. Clearly, that is paramount to your job description. But the other thing that I found so inspiring when I was very first starting, and we've had people share these stories, is that there's a lot of support within our community. Now, perhaps you're maybe in a bigger league than our last few guests, but in these indie films, people gravitate towards one another, directors will call you back, producers will call you back, and there's a lot of support. People want to see the people they like succeed. Your person sitting on the sofa watching Hollywood and the Vixens and the cattiness and everything. It's really not like that. There's a lot of camaraderie, especially amongst artists like yourself that are out there making a difference, and maybe not the big Marquet name, but still doing quality work that's being seen by audiences. And we have our community to thank for that to a degree.

Chris Gaunt 17:42

And Jeffrey, I would say quickly on that, every single person I've worked with and the films I've done, everyone, whether it's a short film that has very little funding to fairly large theatrically released productions, they're all working their tail off with the common goal of trying their best to work as a team and get something going that's meaningful to them, creative, and it scratches that itch and drives that ahead in a team fashion. So it really doesn't matter. We all want to do well, but it is a business, right? So if you're even if you're an actor with incredibly creative, just remember behind the scenes, there's a lot of people that want to support you, but ultimately we would like to get those projects seen. Pull your way.

Jeff Ornstein 18:22

You've got like these multiple hats you juggle between producing and directing and acting. I think, and forgive me if I've skipped over one. I took my reading glasses off. But do you have a preference in your perfect world when you wake up in the morning? Is there one particular craft that you would love to really just be totally immersed in?

Chris Gaunt 18:43

I think the most fun I've had, interestingly enough, is doing a short film a couple of years ago where I had the opportunity to cast it, direct it, executive produce and produce it, and then had a chance to act in it. The only thing I didn't do for that particular production, and others were being with me and the team, is write it. So I love being the quarterback of all those positions. That's a lot of fun. Gun to my head though, love to act, and I absolutely love to direct. Because directing, unlike acting, you're involved in every single play of that production, which is fantastic. You're not waiting for your time to go on, which is fine. So I the directing piece is wonderful, and the acting piece, maybe to a lesser degree, producing, because a lot of that reminds me of the work I did for 30 plus years. That's more of the grinding away paperwork and agreements, and which is fine. It's definitely needed, and then writing, I'd love to write as well. Okay.

Jeff Ornstein 19:38

Of course, we're already over, but I've still got some questions I have to ask. Is there a project now that's percolating in your brain? Like if someone came and offered you funding tomorrow, this is what you'd like to embark upon. Is there a story that's burning inside of you that you want to get out?

Chris Gaunt 19:53

Yeah, there's a couple of things that I've written myself that I would like to get out, but I'm working with a production company called Dancing Plague Productions, and it's a brilliant writer. His name is Joe Gettle. And I've worked on a couple of his productions before. I'm an executive producer on his production in his production company. And there's a product right now, or a project right now called The Leg, which is an award-winning documentary called Finder's Keepers. It's a really quirky story, very Cohen Brothers-like. And the documentary, I believe, won South by Southwest about 10 years ago. We secured the necessary rights to make it into a feature. And he also has about six or seven other feature films in his slate of films in his production company. So I'm linked at the hip with Joan. I have been for years. He's an unbelievably talented writer. His production company is called Dancing Plague Productions. So wait, I'd love to come back someday and talk about the leg, it's called, and how to quant.

Jeff Ornstein 20:49

All right, and I'm gonna I try and follow, add all my guests to all of my so I can watch them, whether it's on Instagram or Facebook or any other platforms, and I'll I'll check out this fellow as well. Five years from now, when you look back at this conversation, what would you say that version of me is just getting started? That version of me had no idea this was coming down the pike.

Chris Gaunt 21:10

But yeah, I think the version of me that's just getting started is that as I continue to develop in this industry, the thing that I love to do more is, like I said, quarterback each of those respective positions. So whether it's acting, directing, writing, or producing. And you can really do that, Jeffrey, when you have your own production company. So I'm fortunate enough where I started an LLC, Shazy Lake Productions, which has a host of projects involved in that. I'm executive producing and producing with Joe and his team on Dancing Lake, excuse me, Dancing Plague Productions, which is fantastic. So I think the version of me five years from now will be a slate of films in each of our respective camps, Shazy Lake Productions, Dancing Plague Productions, and perhaps some others, where I'm wearing all those different hats, including acting in those various projects as well, but touching each piece is or each of the pieces are act, produce, direct, and right within the context of that production. Excellent.

Jeff Ornstein 22:04

Then, you know, I do have to ask in closing, because our industry is a little bit in a slump right now, do you have a patron? Or I don't know if you're allowed to ask that actually. How do you find your funding sources? Is it more challenging now than it was two or five or ten years ago?

Chris Gaunt 22:19

Great question. Depending on the size of the project, if it's a theatrical release where your studios are funded, where it's funded, then you don't really need to worry about it. That if it's a union-based project. But for personal projects that I've done with my production company and others, typically it's grinding through friends and family, right? Grinding through fundraisers. We all know the fundraisers that are out there. Right. So you're looking for investors and or contributors. There's lots of different investment type companies geared for funding films. But there's also just contributors, people that are cinephiles that love film with a passion, that are willing to contribute to the end goal of seeing a film because they dig the story and they want to see these filmmakers bring that story to life.

Jeff Ornstein 23:01

Right.

Chris Gaunt 23:02

But rattling the can, as I like to say, it's never easy, particularly on the independent film lane, but it can always be done with just perseverance.

Jeff Ornstein 23:10

You can get a film's made. I completely agree with you. And that goes to marketing yourself and your skills and your vision. And it's not easy, but you got to get over the hump. And you just got to say, I'm going to pick up the phone. I love the phone. You can be an assassin in someone's office by dialing seven digits. So it's simple. Chris, uh, we didn't even get to touch on any of your many films, but I think just by listening to you speak and telling how your experiences, that's going to provide a lot of inspiration to the people who listen to this to say, it can be done. It can be done. If someone can walk away from a brilliant career where they're getting acknowledged for their accomplishments, I can walk away from a mediocre career and do it and be happy. I mean, you certainly seem happy.

Chris Gaunt 23:52

So yeah, love it. I wouldn't trigger this for the world. And I always say, do what you think you can't and never ever give up. Because if you give up, you will never make it. Whatever your definition of making it is, right? Whatever that's always keep at it. Good things will come. May not come on your timing, but it will come. And do press yourself and challenge yourself. Do what you think you can't do. And it's amazing when you set the bar, highlight that. How many things you can accomplish in life. It's unbelievable. Dive into the deep end. Yeah, just dive into the deep end and start swimming.

Jeff Ornstein 24:25

All right, Chris. We have to say goodbye. It's been a pleasure having you on. Perhaps I'll reach out to you or you reach out to me in six months. You got something exciting to talk about. We'd love to have you back. I'd love to. Thanks, Jeffrey. You're welcome. Have a great day. Thanks for tuning in to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein. Follow, subscribe, and stay connected to your favorite socials at www.next actpodcast.com. Keep chasing your next act. The best is yet to come.