Jeff Ornstein 0:01

Hi everyone, and welcome to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein. I am Jeff, and on this show we celebrate people on the cusp of greatness. Those building on past successes in some of the curious and inventive and sometimes unexpected ways they have achieved those, and stepping into moments that could define their legacy. We'll talk about current projects, lessons learned, and the extraordinary opportunities ahead. So the best is yet to come. Mark Barron is an award-winning actor, screenwriter, director, and producer whose career spans theater, film, television, and voiceover. He's a long-serving sag after leader and shepherd emeritus of the Lambs, the nation's first professional theatrical club. Mark develops independent feature films like Megaballs and Come Back in Vienna, mentoring emerging writers along the way. He brings decades of creative experience, a deep connection to his artistic family legacy, and a passion for helping others find their voice in the arts. Welcome. Hi, thank you. Good to be here. You're very welcome. So, of course, I was intrigued to learn more about the lambs, because I have to be honest, I'd never heard about it, and it's quite a historical s story behind it. And not only does it date back to what was it, 1878 in the United States and longer in in England, but the other thing that I found was curious was out of the 36 shepherds, only two have served longer than you. You're one of the longest serving shepherds in that rich history.

Marc Baron 1:37

Actually, I think it was there are seven more than me. Oh, really? Because some of them would serve a year and then they go out and they come back a year later. So I'm the eighth longest serving. The seven, sixth, and fifth, all each are one year longer than me. Okay. The longest serving was Tom Dylan, who did 17 years, and he left the office to become president of the Actors Fund.

Jeff Ornstein 2:04

Oh, wow. He kept his mentoring and his dedication to the arts very clear. Yeah, he he jumped out at me for sure, Tom Dillon. So that really goes to a commitment to our industry, to craft, and you have a long-standing history of mentoring. One of the things I found was interesting was that you felt that you were mentored, or you expressed in in my notes, that you were mentored by two incredible artists, Dustin Hoffman and Matthew Broderick. What's interesting about those guys is they're sort of like the unexpected romantic interests, you know, they sort of outside the envelope. And obviously great comedic actors, different generations, but there's something similar about their theatrical DNA. What was your experience with them?

Marc Baron 2:55

Well, I I think mentoring is not the quite the right word. They were more about encouragement. I used to do a lot of stand-in work or double work for actors. It became my my way of paying my rent. And I did a film that I called my masterclass where Sid Dillamette was the director, and the cast was Sean Connery, Dustin Hoffman, Matthew Broderick, and I was standing in and doubling occasionally for Matthew Broderick. And by day three, it was an amazing experience. Dustin, hysterical, funny man on the set. Sean was going through some vocal problems, but he was chatting often, and Matthew Broderick and I became nice acquaintances. I still see and hear from him. And Sidney Omette was writing a book about making movies, and I became the soundboard. So I was getting an education you don't get anywhere else. And we were filming over the holidays, and I was off in the corner writing a night before Christmas, all through the set. No one was stirring Lamette. And I wrote it for the whole cast and crew. Sure. And one day when I was working on it, Matthew saw me writing this little thing and he grabbed it and he says, I'll be right back. And he walks away and he comes back five minutes later with Dustin Hoffman. He's like, You wrote this? It's like, yeah. And then from that, every day on, the two of them kept saying, You need to start writing and making your own projects. In fact, I'm developing a project now when we did reach out for Dustin. That was nice. You know, he remembered me and was very kind, but it was, you know, here's the agent to send the project to. Our team has decided he's kind of aged out of the role. And Matthew, I almost always seem to run into him at least once a year somewhere, and always very friendly. And so it was a great experience. Very nice.

Jeff Ornstein 4:38

So your experience has had you singing, acting, directing, writing, and voiceover. Are those things that you have comfortably mentored young people as they're coming up through the ranks and all those, or is there one in particular that stands out?

Marc Baron 4:55

Uh for me, I think I've been helping more people with their screenwriting lately. I was in the Navy when I came out in the 70s. I had a computer when Steve Job was making them in his garage. And when I would get on a set and writers, whether playwrights or screenwriters heard I had a computer, everybody's like, oh, would you put this on your computer so it could be easily edited? And that's how I started picking up skills. And then with the encouragement of Dustin and Matthew, I went into it much more. So I've been working as a script rewriter, as a script doctor, as a co-writer, and now I've got a few projects on my own. And so what I'm doing is I'm sharing now what I've learned in the process to help others get a good start into writing their own material.

Jeff Ornstein 5:40

Mm-hmm. Okay, so I've got the works of Megaballs and Comeback in Vienna, and I I'm I'm not familiar with Comeback in Vienna, but they are both comedic in nature, correct? So is that something that's running through your veins? Am I getting?

Marc Baron 5:55

Well, Megaballs is all outright comedy, and Comeback in Vienna is a romantic comedy, but we kind of the meters are to look towards the comedy side. In fact, the tagline that is we're calling it the unromantic comedy. You know, I'm a person, I I love smart comedy. I mean, I, you know, you look back at some of the comedies of Billy Wilder, or obviously Woody Allen in his heyday, or uh even the silent films, Chaplin and Keaton, or a new director I've recently learned to love is Jacques Tati of France. You know, the visual comedy. So I do tend to lean that way. And especially I think, you know, whenever life gets tough in the world, comedy is a better way out of it.

Jeff Ornstein 6:37

Right, right. You know, it's got such a universal appeal. I mean, and people love to laugh. So I I guess they love to be frightened to death because horror is very popular, and people love to laugh. You know, that's a little bit of the escapism that film or theater, you know, provide for us. And do I understand that you were speaking with Susan Sarandon or some she had some sort of tangential?

Marc Baron 6:58

Yeah, I well during during the actor's strike, I was a strike captain, and we had a line where we had a lot of what we call high-profile members come down. Among them was F. Marie Abraham and Susan Sarandon. And she came down fairly frequently, and I got to know her and her assistant. And uh about a year later, after the strike, I reached out and said, you know, I've got this project, and you'd be perfect in the female lead. Do you read a script? I guess I was lucky that I built enough trust that they agreed to read the script. And yeah, they they really like it. Uh, we can officially say she is interested in the project. We're now working in the process to attach her, and also in the process, in fact, we just had a Zoom meeting this morning between Los Angeles, New York, and Vienna, where it'll shoot, and discussing now uh strategy on going after the male co-star.

Jeff Ornstein 7:49

Right. Well, you know, there's always been for many years a long talk about actresses' careers, you know, sizzling after 40, and certainly romantic roles sizzling after 40. So Susan Sarandin, who still is incredibly beautiful and photogenic, will capture hearts at any age on the film. But I bet you, you know, that it is a unique role being offered because it's not commonplace mainstay in many films today for a comedic actress of her age to be in a romantic comedy.

Marc Baron 8:23

Well, that and I think that's part of the appeal. There is an ageism in the industry, and obviously the first one that goes the romantic issue. And you know, hey, let's face it, we're not 25 anymore, and people in their advanced years still fall in love and have a love life. And uh that's one of the things, and just by coincidence, see, now this particular comeback in Vienna is loosely based on a play that I directed at The Lambs back in the mid-90s and made an arrangement for the playwright to convert it to screenplay, so it's been developed that long. But it really took off during COVID when I met this Austrian producer and said, I have this story that could be retold to Vienna, and so that's how it's been developed. But what was really interesting when I met Susan and her assistant on the line, that is the leak character. It is about an aging movie star and her young assistant. Mm-hmm. And the craziness that goes on when the presumed dead ex-husband, ex-co-star shows up. Oh, wow. And the mayhem ensues, I suspect. Yes, and then accusations that somebody thinks he's a spy, so it becomes almost farcical.

Jeff Ornstein 9:36

I love it. And certainly only Vienna, I've actually worked there myself. It's a very charismatic town. And the the streets and the architecture and even the people, I would imagine it's almost Vienna is a character in the film as well.

Marc Baron 9:52

Exactly. In fact, we say it's not only a love story in Vienna, but it's a love story to Vienna. Nice. Nice. And uh my mother was born and raised here. My mother was a classmate of Hedy Lamarr. Smart. And I had this very rich family history, and we've written that into the lead character. So in the story of the link, that's why the the character is in Vienna, because she has this family history, she has mine. And the people in Vienna have been very welcoming. For example, we have a scene in a 300-year-old church, which in real life has a statue sculpted by my grandfather. Oh, wow. And in the scene, we we've already approached the church and they've read the script, and their attitude is, yeah, let us know when you want it. Not even a question about money. It's just like, yeah, we're ready.

Jeff Ornstein 10:38

That's great. I think, you know, going to see a film that's got in quote a an exotic location or a location that many Americans may not have visited would add a certain appeal to it. I mean, do you find these locations also do you pick the locations for the the scripts that you write or you develop with others as an important component, or is it all about the characters, the ph the physical human characters?

Marc Baron 11:00

Well, it depends on the nature of the story. This particular story uh comeback was originally uh a play that took place during the Cannes Film Festival. But it adapted very easily to Vienna. And we I in in the rewrites we agreed the title would have the word Vienna, because as you said, just it it creates an image, just the title when we hear Vienna. Absolutely. It's a very romantic city in many ways, like Paris. Right. But more mysterious. Yeah, it's unknown, it's very imperialistic, you know, it still has the the castles and all these wonderful things, and music plays a big part of Vienna, and that's a part of the story. The other story, Megaballs, is set in New York, because that's where I wrote and where I saw, but it could be transferred to any other city in the U.S. where the mob story would work. So it could be Philadelphia, it could be Boston, right, or or it could be Chicago, it could be any goes without saying. Right. But another consideration anybody when you're writing is a story is where the tax deals are. Right. Because that's a big, big part of the financing.

Jeff Ornstein 12:09

Right. So we're in a challenging day right now in our industry, and even you know, the big budget films with the big recognizable bankable stars are not necessarily flying into distribution and leaves an opportunity for more uh budget-friendly, you know, uh productions, the one to two million dollar range, I guess. But of course, then you're not necessarily gonna get the mega box office draw name unless you find someone like Susan Sarandon who's, you know, said, uh, I love this script, I love working with you, I'm gonna go for this. Where do you find, when you've been working on projects or developing projects, where do you find the most success in soliciting backers for your work?

Marc Baron 12:57

Uh it's a combination. I think in today, what what I will term as an independent film is a much smaller budget, meaning you're able to finance it independently. And financing could happen through friends and relatives who pony up some money, maybe some business contacts, product deals, and all that. Generally, I think those films come in at under a half million dollars. Right. Okay. As your budget goes up, you need more ways to attract the money. And part of that has to do with the finding a saleable talent because now you bring in pre-sales. Right. And you really need to have somebody who knows how to budget. When you write, I don't encourage people to write thinking totally in terms of budget, but there are aspects of writing you should concern, like, you know, crowd scenes, a lot of speaking roles. These are things that will raise your budget. Megaballs originally was budgeted a million dollars. That was based in New York. And then we went to uh before COVID hit, we went to uh Sundance and Toronto and pitched, and we got some good meetings out of it, but their uh distributed told us we need to bring the budget up higher because comedies and dramas really still need some known talent to help sell it.

Jeff Ornstein 14:09

Mm-hmm.

Marc Baron 14:10

Interesting. So we were told there was a sweep spot between three to five. So megabols that comes in at just over three. But now, since we started doing the budget on that years ago, because of the strike and rates have gone up, it's probably getting closer to four million now. Wow. The comeback in Vienna is a little different because while it would feel like an American film, uh it's actually going to be legally an Austrian film. I do have dual citizenship. The project will be shot under an Austrian company. So that the process of financing is different there, the budgeting. They have budgeted at 6 million euro instead of 7 million US. But once you start getting over that half million, you start need to get some kind of a pre-sales. Right. You know, even an actor that may have not been seen in a long time that still has a name, they're still looking for a job that has a certain quality level, and they'll equate that with the budget.

Jeff Ornstein 15:10

So six million dollars is quite a sum of money. I mean, are you raising that by friends and is that my godfather calling? Yeah, that is. That's that's when I have a client calling, it's um I have the godfather play. It's usually a life or death situation. That's quite a sum of money. But uh so when you when you you know you're talking about the comedy's three to five million, does that get you a Matthew Broderick interested in the production? I mean a big name like that?

Marc Baron 15:39

It depends on when you're filming and how many days they're needed.

Jeff Ornstein 15:43

Right.

Marc Baron 15:44

I would love to get Matthew in my film. I think he's right for the role. Uh I would certainly approach him when I get to that point.

Jeff Ornstein 15:50

Right.

Marc Baron 15:50

But it's kind of a chicken and the egg because in order to get the talent, you need the money, but in order to get the money, you need the talent. Right. Planets all have to align at the same time, I guess. Right. And you and you're juggling different sources. Like, for example, on comeback. So we've already had some meetings at the EFM, and some distributors and salespeople have looked at the project, and they said, based on Susan Sarandon, they estimate a minimum sale value of X million. Now, depending who we get for the male co-star, that will go up. And then you see how much of that they'll give you in advance. Right. And now you might have a couple of million to make up, which you start doing with uh private equity product deals, you know. So I'll give you an example. My producer did a film during COVID in Salzburg with F. Mary Abraham. It's a retelling of the magic flute, and they needed a Mercedes limousine for one shot. And they re they met the requirements that Mercedes wants. So Mercedes gave them the limousine, and they gave them 20 production vehicles for free. Oh, nice. So that saved money they didn't need to raise the budget. So in Vienna, I have this church for free. I have the Vienna Johann Strauss Orchestra, which is about 80 years old, is giving us for free their entire recording library. Wow. So now I've got some great music to plug in that it's not going to cost me. Which is usually a big expense. Right. So there's always combinations of things, either you get contributions of money in or you get service deals or items you don't need to pay for given for free.

Jeff Ornstein 17:27

Right. I can feel this movie, Vienna, the architecture, the orchestra, Susan Saranzin's doe doe, doe-filled eyes. I mean, I can feel it already. It's captivating me. So it's interesting because you've spoken also, the producers gave me some crypt notes, as you imagine, about resilience. And several of the people that come on this podcast talk about that. Because, you know, dealing with the rejection or the frustration of not breaking through. Yeah, what's so interesting is that everyone I speak with breaks through in terms of like they're confident enough to know I'm going to face this adversarial or you know, perceived adversarial component in my lifetime, in my career. But yet all the people I talk to are survivors. So it's very interesting. So you have counseled people about how to deal with a slow-moving career or or rejection.

Marc Baron 18:27

I think it's a it's a it when you look at this as an art form, which it is both an art and a business, it's like when you look at any artist, a painter, a sculptor, or whatever, they all go through tough times, you know, but they're dedicated to their art. Right. You have to approach this knowing it's not gonna happen quickly, and it can take a lifetime to achieve even a modicum success. Right. And what I tell people, the job is to just survive. Right. You can't go in this business hoping I'm gonna be a star in five years from now. No, I mean the realistic goal is that in five years from now I want to be making my living doing this. Right, right. But not, you know, pay my rent and pay my bills. I've been lucky that on the SAG After Board, there's a lot of actors that I've gotten to know over the years that you wouldn't know their names, but if you saw their face, you would recognize them. And they all are making their living in the business, and that's an achievable goal. And if you prepared for the tough times, it's easy. I think I had, as my example, my grandfather who was a sculptor. Now he died when I was fairly young. I was like 13. But he was, you know, a coming and up known artist in Vienna up until the war broke out and came to New York and was a nobody and and literally just got through doing whatever he could do to keep producing the art.

Jeff Ornstein 19:52

Well, what's wonderful about it is I have found in my short like five years being in the industry, if you will, is that it's an incredibly supportive group of people. You know, you as an outsider, you might think, oh, theater people, they're gonna be competitive or they're gonna be cutthroat. You know, you have the the diva image in in that Hollywood's created for you. And it's not. I mean, the people from producers and writers and directors and cameramen and actors, and they're all really supportive of one another. And like you said, they come back, you circulate, you make friendships, and then your phone rings, and here's another project, and would you want to participate? So you're right. Staying alive with the with the commitment to this is what I I'm meant to do, which is so wonderful.

Marc Baron 20:41

And you know what's interesting, the the strike that we re we had now, I can't believe it's two years already, but the one thing that came out of it you never hear people talk about is it created this tremendous sense of community. You're out there every day working, walking the lines, you're walking with people who, you know, had done five days of extra work one year, and next to them you're walk working with Oscar-winning performers like Susan and F. Murray Abraham, and the list goes on and on. And everybody felt we're all in this together for the same thing.

Jeff Ornstein 21:17

Right, right. That's exactly right. All right, so uh we are, of course, his as historically is proven, we always are, way over time. So I have a question for you. If you could give a young person one bit of advice when you're starting out, whether it's about how to perfect your craft or who to become friends with or how to deal with each other, one one piece of basic advice for them to just chew on and let it kind of be an ember in the back of their brain. Do you have a a sage or piece of wisdom you could share?

Marc Baron 21:46

I think I would repeat what Dustin told me and what he said in the film Tutsi as an acting teacher, and that is don't wait for the work, make the work. Great.

Jeff Ornstein 21:59

I love it. I love it. So that's we had an actress on a few episodes ago, and she said no one knew what to do with her. No one knew what to do with her. And someone said, I don't know what to do with you. And she went home and she said, Okay, I'll write my own role. And she did, and she had a fair amount of success with it. So your advice is right on track with other people who have demonstrated a lot of commitment and success in the industry.

Marc Baron 22:25

You we all have one of these wonderful devices which shoot 4K and you can make a short film already without any real expense. Right. Get together with some other actors that you're like-minded, sit down in an afternoon, write a five-minute, 10-minute short, go make it.

Jeff Ornstein 22:42

Right. Look, it was wonderful having you on. I I love the transcontinental element of your story and your work and your passion. And I wish you best of luck, and I'm going to be keeping my eyes open and my social media open to try and track you. Thanks for tuning in to Next Dack with Jeff Orenstein. Follow, subscribe, and stay connected to your favorite socials at www.nextdackpodcast.com. Keep chasing your next act. The best is yet to come.