Jeff Ornstein 0:01

Hi everyone, and welcome to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein. I am Jeff, and on this show we celebrate people on the cusp of greatness. Those building on past successes in some of the curious and inventive and sometimes unexpected ways they have achieved those, and stepping into moments that could define their legacy. We'll talk about current projects, lessons learned, and the extraordinary opportunities ahead. So the best is yet to come. Aaron Marcus is a professional actor, model, author, and mentor with over 40 years in the entertainment industry and nearly 1,300 bookings. Congratulations, no small feat. He's worked alongside Academy Award winners like Tom Hanks, Judy Dench, and Ellen Burston, and has guided hundreds of aspiring actors through workshops, books, and online mentoring programs that demystify the acting and modeling world. Aaron, welcome. Hey, it's so nice to be here.

Aaron Marcus 0:56

Thanks.

Jeff Ornstein 0:57

Good, good. So I love the impressive CV you've got with regarding to your mentorship, but I want to talk about you first, okay? I'm not that interesting of a guy, so okay. You wouldn't be here if you weren't that interesting. Just briefly, can you tell me like how you got into acting or what at what age you when did the bug finally say this is me?

Aaron Marcus 1:19

So I have an unusual kind of story, and it's not a typical one for actors. A lot of actors I know who've been doing this for a long time. They grew up, they did theater, they knew this is what they wanted to do with their lives. I kind of had a backwards way of getting in. I was actually in college for the second time after dropping out and trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And I decided I wanted to be a physical therapist. And I started taking all the classes that I avoided my entire life, all the sciences. And I needed a part-time job to support myself in school. I met an actor, he did mostly TV commercials, and it hit me. And I thought, this is a great part-time job for a full-time college student. And once again, I had no intention of trying to make a career out of it. And so that's what I started doing on a, once again, part-time basis. And it wasn't just TV commercials, it was commercial modeling and things like that. Although when I started, I had no idea what that meant. And after doing it for two years, I finished all my prerequisites to start applying to physical therapy school. So at this point, you know, I'm thinking I might have been like around 26, 27, I mean, somewhere around there. It wasn't like a young kid. And I started having these thoughts. I love doing this stuff. And I thought, you know what? Here's what I'm going to do. I want to try this for one year on a full-time basis. And then I'll reevaluate and I'll see: was it enjoyable? Could I actually get more jobs? Is it something that I could live with being self-employed and things like that? And that's turned into a 40-plus-year career.

Jeff Ornstein 3:05

Fantastic. Yeah, it's not well, theater is not for the faint of heart. But what's so remarkable about that, yeah, it definitely takes courage and courageousness and obviously some innate skill that you possess. So that is interesting because it's sort of not like, oh, I had this calling and, you know, someone spoke to me or I went to see the show and I said that guy. You know, it sort of came up out of necessity, but also there was this sort of like, I really love this, you know, and unexpected, which is what I love about it. So you've had some opportunities. I mean, I gotta hear about House of Cards. I mean, perhaps one of the famous streaming shows of all time. It took you 15 auditions to land the role. Yeah.

Aaron Marcus 3:47

Is that common? Yeah. And so for people who aren't that familiar with it, um, it was the very first streaming show. It changed the world. It literally changed the world. Netflix, you know, most shows, you you shoot a pilot, you hope it gets picked up. Most of them don't. And for House of Cards, because of the people connected with it, the showrunner, some of the stars, Netflix gave them money, enough money for two seasons without seeing a thing. Wow. So, and that just changed how we watched TV. It was like I said, it was first streamy show. Yeah, it's really interesting. And and and I and I think this will be really helpful for fellow actors to hear. A lot of actors that I've spoken to, they get very frustrated when they audition with the same casting director multiple times. Maybe it's the same project, a TV show, and they're, you know, still casting, or, you know, maybe it's other projects, but it's the same casting director. And after four or five auditions, people start thinking, you know what, it's clear the casting director doesn't want me.

Jeff Ornstein 4:54

Right.

Aaron Marcus 4:54

I don't know why they keep bringing me in because it's clear, you know, I'm not going to get a job. I feel like I'm just wasting my time. I really don't want to continue doing this with the casting director. What people don't understand is that a casting director will not bring an actor back a second time unless they think the actor is great. Right. And there are a million and one reasons why people book a job and don't book a job. Most of the time, it has nothing to do with talent. You know, it's not, it's not like the Olympics where whoever, you know, skates the best, you know, and scores tens gets the gold medal. For acting, it's very different. Yeah, of course, you have to be skilled. It has to be a good audition. But then there are so many factors that have nothing to do with your read. You're too tall, you're too short, you're too good looking, you're not good looking enough, your body's in too good a shape. You know, who knows why? So I read over two years, 14 times. I had callbacks, I was asked to put myself on hold, I was being considered, sometimes nothing. And it was the 15th audition where I booked a recurring role. And you know what's really interesting. This 15th audition, and I can't say for sure, I believe it's because of a question that I asked that helped get me the role. So for this particular role, it ran for um a shot for three different uh episodes. But I always watch a show, you know, before I audition for it. So I'm familiar with the pacing. Is it a comedy? You know, do people just talk over each other? Is it more laid back? Just to get a sense of it and to know who the characters are. So for this one, I'm reading with a character that I wasn't familiar with. And I say reading with a character is the casting director, or they had a reader, but it was a character that hadn't been in the episode yet. So I asked the casting director, what is my relationship with this character who I'm talking to? And she said, You work for her. I went, Oh, that completely changed the way I read it. She's my boss.

Jeff Ornstein 7:02

Yeah, she's a that there's a dynamic right there.

Aaron Marcus 7:04

Absolutely. It was a huge piece of information that transformed things for me. And I read it like she's my boss and not just a friend, somebody we're hanging out with, you know, that kind of stuff.

Jeff Ornstein 7:16

Very different.

Aaron Marcus 7:16

Yeah, and I booked a recurring role. So it was it was just an amazing experience working um with Ellen Burston, who is an Academy Award-winning actor.

Jeff Ornstein 7:26

Phenomenal. Phenomenal.

Aaron Marcus 7:28

Robin Wright, who played the president's wife. And so anyhow, it was a a great, great experience.

Jeff Ornstein 7:34

Right. Obviously, actors have to develop thick skins because of the rejection issue. But a very good friend of mine who is a booking agent in Los Angeles says 100 people get called in for a role, 90 of them will suck, 10 people will be good. You're gonna get called if you're called back, all 10 of you are great. And it's gonna be the guy that takes the cap off of his water the way the director likes it. It could be so like he says, You asked a question, it was a good question, but it could be so minuscule, you never know. You that you reminded him of his cousin Eddie, who was the inspiration for the character. You never know. So, but still, I have a friend who's an actress, and she got it went on an audition for a play, and she was sure she got it, sure she got it. She nailed it, it was down to her and one of the girls, she didn't get it. And then two months went by and they called her, we need you to start tomorrow. So, yeah, so she did a post about how, you know, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. But she was negative, and this is not a negative person. So, inspiration and determination and perspiration, of course, is important for actors. So, I do want to talk about your mentorship because I mean, in addition to having booked 1,300 jobs. Almost, not quite there. I'm getting there. No small feat because being a great actor and booking a job are two separate things. They're right, they're two separate skills, even. So, but you have done over 800 workshops on three continents. So there's something in you, obviously, you must be incredibly inspiring to the people who come and listen to you, otherwise, you wouldn't have given 800 of them. But it's also such a great thing to give back.

Aaron Marcus 9:12

Yeah.

Jeff Ornstein 9:13

Because, you know, people would like to tend to think that Hollywood or theater is cutthroat industry, but it's not. It can be very supportive, and you're sort of like emblematic of that support. How'd you get into doing that?

Aaron Marcus 9:27

Yeah. So, and you know, and it's so interesting. There were some other things I was gonna say about it, but the the immediately answer your question, once again, it it's just, I don't know, maybe it was just the way I was brought up of trying to help other people, try to give back. There was an agent, and I'm going back decades. There was an agent, probably about three and a half hours away from where I lived, who I worked with. And she was really nice. I liked her. And she said, uh, look, Aaron, I know you get a lot of commercial modeling work, which at that time period I did. And she said, I wonder if if you could do me a favor, would you mind coming down here talking to my actors? And, you know, just explain to them what commercial modeling is all about, how you go about doing it. And I said, sure, I'd be more than happy to do it. And there was no money involved. I'd be spending, you know, full day driving back and forth, doing an hour workshop. And so I put this whole thing together. It's the first time I had ever done that. And I went down there, gave the talk. I really enjoyed it. And then I started finding I'm getting, I mean, at that time period, it wasn't emails, but I'm getting a lot of phone calls, people wanting to ask me questions. And so I thought, you know what? Maybe this is a good time to maybe start putting together an actual workshop, something even longer, and seeing if, you know, people have an interest in it. That also, so that that's really how that started. It was just a complete freebie. Somebody asked. Right. And I said, sure. And when I started getting so many questions all the time, I thought, you know what, maybe I could, maybe I could write a book. And and so at that time period, it was how to become a successful model, commercial model. And then that turned into how to become a successful actor and model. And that's been, it's it's a great cookbook for people who want to learn how to actually get work. It's not, look, like you were saying, there are lots of really talented actors who don't know how to go about getting jobs. I've spoken to plenty of people at major acting, you know, programs, and you know, they're taught how to act. And they're really, really talented actors, but there's so much more because we are running a business. That's what a lot of people don't think about. We are our business, right? And you have to learn how to get out in this world, how to find an agent, how to put together the right kind of resume that industry professionals expect, how to market yourself. You know, even if you have an agent, I've always been very proactive. I never like to just sit around and wait for agents to call me. I was always out there trying to hustle, and I would contact commercial photographers, I would contact casting directors, I would contact art and creative directors at advertising agencies. But getting back to something you said that I think is a really important thing as far as the cutthroat stuff, and it's not necessarily good or bad. Everybody does things differently. But there are a lot of very competitive actors out there. And look, that is one way to run your business. Right. It's not the way that I run mine. And what I have found is that these are things that I talk about, whether it's private mentoring, my actor career program, or workshops. We're not competing with anybody.

Jeff Ornstein 12:44

Right.

Aaron Marcus 12:45

It's just a reality. Very true. We might look very similar. We might be going to the exact same audition for the same role. But the fact is, we've had different lives, we've had different life experiences, we do things differently in our auditions, and we're not competing. And for me, what I found, and by the way, you know, look, I'm saying this very confidently now. When I first started, and I'd walk into a room and I'm looking around the room, seeing who's there, go, oh, I've seen that guy before. You know, he's been in movies and TV shows when I'm first getting started. You know, I'm never going to book. And once I stopped doing that crazy stuff, and I just focused on doing what I want to do, things started to improve. And I felt better. And I love the idea of forming a group of fellow actors. And that's also one of the reasons why I have I have a YouTube channel, and it's just filled with free quick tip videos. There are over 500 of these things. Wow. And I like the idea of sharing information, having other people comment and share their experiences so that we can all learn from each other. And I think, like you were saying before, there are plenty of auditions out there. There are plenty of jobs. And if it was meant for you to get the job, you're going to get it. If it wasn't meant for you, you're not going to get it. And it'll be something else. So once again, I'm not telling people what to do. I never do that, but I think it's it's been really helpful for me just to do my work and share information with people because it seems like a much better way, not only to run your business, it's a much better way to live, at least for me, to live my life.

Jeff Ornstein 14:34

Right. Well, interesting because if you're the most successful bricklayer, you've perfected a way to lay the bricks. You lay the bricks. But acting is not like that because it's so personal between the writer and the director and the other people who've been cast. So there must be something about the way you communicate to your students that says, this is not an exact science. You have to bring what you bring. And then if it doesn't work out, it wasn't meant to be. And don't take it personally. And to have someone say, you know, you have that aha moment, oh, fantastic. You know, if I don't book for the next three months, I'm not going to let it get to me. I'm just going to say the right role and the right director and the right casting crew just wasn't there that day for me.

Aaron Marcus 15:21

Yeah, and you know, and that's really interesting because there are a couple points to that. One is every audition I do, most of them I don't book. And that's just reality. When and sometimes I've heard actors say, oh, I booked 97% of all the auditions, you know, I go on. Well, if that's really true, you probably went on two auditions or something like that. Because the fact that it's hard to book. I mean, that's just the reality. But something that that I do that I find really helpful as well is that I truly do not believe I'm going to book any audition that I go on. I don't do that because I think I'm horrible and I don't have any talent. Look, and to be perfectly honest, I'm not the greatest actor in the world. I'm I'm okay. And there are certain things that I think I do okay, and those are the things that I book. But here's my strategy. And once again, this took me many, many years to figure out. I never try to book the job. Like, you know, some people walk out, I nailed it. You know, this is my job. I'm not even trying to book the job. Here's my number one goal for every single audition. Have a good time. Right. That's it. That's my goal. I want to say, hey, you know what? It's a Wednesday afternoon. I get a chance to play, I get a chance to explore, I get a chance to be, you know, a character. That's fun for me. Right. And I have 100% control over that. But like we talked before, we have no control over who gets booked for the job. The other thing too, for well, actually, there are two things. One one is, God, you're bringing out all these ideas in my head that I'm trying to get out there. I hope I remember. Yeah. The audience wants to hear it. So the other thing too is every time I do an audition, I kind of view it like I'm making a small deposit in the bank.

Jeff Ornstein 17:10

Excellent.

Aaron Marcus 17:11

Because, like you were saying, yeah, I'm going to go in there and very possible, I'm probably not going to get it. But if it goes well, then why wouldn't they ask me out on a date again? The first date went well. Wasn't, you know, they didn't, we didn't get married the first date, and that's okay. I wasn't planning on it. Right. But if it went well, of course they're going to think of you because if you can fill the need for a casting director, right this time, it didn't work. But they'll remember that. And and the one other thing, and I'm so glad I remembered it, this also took me a long time. Like you were saying, it's difficult for actors because we are constantly being told no. You know, right. Look, if we are selling computers and I'm selling a MacBook Pro and I knock on your door and I say, Hey, are you interested in the new MacBook Pro? You might say, you know what, I'm really a PC guy. And I go, okay, that's fine. Then you move on. Nothing personal. However, for us, what people are saying is, we don't want you. You. Right. You. I don't want you. Right. And here's the thing, and this has been helpful to me as well. You can't take anything personally in this industry. Once again, these are business decisions. Right. It's not a statement about who you are. You're a nice person. You don't book any jobs. You're still a nice person.

Jeff Ornstein 18:36

Right.

Aaron Marcus 18:37

You know, you don't book the job. You come home and your pup is still loving you and licking you and so happy to see you. It doesn't make any difference. You're still a nice person. So if you can, and I'm not saying don't feel bad if you don't get something that you really want. We're human. I get it. And if it means going out and getting some ice cream to make yourself feel better, but but the thing is, you had the audition. Right. That to me, that's winning. Because you know, you throw out a number of, you know, 100 people, you know, had their headshots, you know, and resumes submitted. Yeah, sometimes it might only be a hundred. I've heard of over a thousand, depending on the project, depending on the role. And they invite a small percentage of those people to actually read. So if you get an audition, that is something to celebrate over.

Jeff Ornstein 19:29

Right. Good point. You know, interesting actors need to remember casting agents get paid when they cast. So if they're calling you back, they recognize you're gonna be right for someone. You know, it might not be in the cards immediately or or long term, it might not be. But it it there's something, there's a reason why they're saying, come in for this role. They have a belief that you're going to fit somewhere. The other thing is that gives always inspired me is when you see a a film and you're like, this casting director was brilliant. All of these people fit so perfectly together. The personalities, the looks, the mannerisms, the acting skills, and that is like to me, an amazing part of a film that captures you when you just feel like you're seeing a little slice of reality that just you were invited to view, and somebody put that together, and that was cast, you know, to a large degree was a casting director.

Aaron Marcus 20:28

Yeah, and and like you said, uh once again, it was a really good point. Look, even if casting directors don't have hearts and they don't care about actors, which I haven't really run into too many that feel that way, but even if they didn't, it's their job to find the right people to fill the needs. Right, you know, that's what's wanted. And if they are bringing in people who are not talented, people who aren't right for it, they're not gonna get hired again by those people. That's exactly right. So of course, it's not like you're fighting with a casting director and I'm gonna show that. They're bringing you in because they think you're right for it. And what a great situation to be in.

Jeff Ornstein 21:11

We are, as normal for me, because I'm a chatterbox and you're a chatterbox over time, but I can let you go before asking one last question here. Because you've spoken so much about how to get actors thinking about being an actor, becoming an actor, getting your career off the ground, focusing on how the machinations of career work. But if an actor only focused on one skill outside of acting itself, what would you tell them is the biggest edge? What would you suggest?

Aaron Marcus 21:39

Be a good observer. Watch people. You can learn so much by watching other people in different situations, reactions, mannerisms, because we should be like sponges and pick up. I say that all the time. Use sponge, be sponge. Yeah, pick up what other people do and use it. It's not illegal to do that. And and I've watched, and I still do. I'm I'm a people watcher, and I love doing that. And I find it interesting, and I've also found it to be very helpful.

Jeff Ornstein 22:14

A source of growth. Aaron, before we go, what's the name of your YouTube channel? I'm sure the viewers would love to in.

Aaron Marcus 22:20

Yeah, it's a kind of a long one. Here's the simplest way to get to the channel, and probably the best thing for people to do. Just go to my website, how toactandmodel.com, and you can do a bunch of things there. One, click on the YouTube icon, and that will take you to the channel. And you can subscribe, click the notification bell. You can also follow me on Instagram. And by the way, I only put business related things there, industry-related things. I don't talk about what I had for lunch or anything. And that's just Aaron R Marcus. You'll find that on the website. And also my actor career program. Uh, and you can read, I don't want to spend the time doing that here. Just go click on career program. And there's also private mentoring if that is of interest to you. Or my book, you can find all that stuff. So just go to how toact a model.com, explore. And if you ever have a question, feel free. Click the contact button and send an email to me. I'm really good at getting back in touch with people.

Jeff Ornstein 23:17

Okay, so you'll remember me. Absolutely. Thanks for tuning in to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein. Follow, subscribe, and stay connected to your favorite socials at www.nextpodcast.com. Keep chasing your next act. The best is yet to come.