Jeff Ornstein 0:01

Hi everyone, and welcome to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein. I am Jeff, and on this show we celebrate people on the cusp of greatness. Those building on past successes in some of the curious and inventive and sometimes unexpected ways they have achieved those, and stepping into moments that could define their legacy. We'll talk about current projects, lessons learned, and the extraordinary opportunities ahead. So the best is yet to come. Jessica O'Donnell is an actress, screenwriter, stand-up comedian, and story analyst who brings her hometown sensibility to every project. From finance and banking to lights, camera, and action, Jessica has transformed her career into one driven by creativity, storytelling, and grit. She helps producers find the right scripts while crafting stories that spotlight overlooked places like her hometown of Niagara Falls. Today we dive into her journey from the corporate world to entertainment and the lessons she's learned along the way. So welcome.

Jessica O’Donnell 1:05

Thank you. You're very welcome.

Jeff Ornstein 1:06

Thanks for having me. So I'd like to start to understand a little bit. Most people have emotional ties to where they were brought up and where they were raised. And I have family in upstate New York. Saranec Lake was a big destination for my family, Geneva, Messina, and I know Niagara's even further up there. And it's very beautiful. And like you've said, it's a little bit forgotten. Was your project, Falls Candy, was that an homage to your hometown?

Jessica O’Donnell 1:35

Yes, definitely. And let me set the record straight that um Niagara Falls, New York is in western New York. And most people refer to everything outside of New York City as upstate, but um we're definitely Western New York and um bordering Canada.

Jeff Ornstein 1:49

Right.

Jessica O’Donnell 1:50

Ontario.

Jeff Ornstein 1:51

The fate of upstate and western New York were sort of tied together when fortunes changed a little bit and it remained beautiful, but there was dynamics that shifted. So what made you want to take on a project to tell the beauty and the poetry and the and the synergies of the folks you knew growing up? What what was it about it?

Jessica O’Donnell 2:13

You know, honestly, when the pandemic hit and I had already gotten um involved in acting and we couldn't do anything, I finally got an opportunity to write the screenplay that I always wanted to write. And I always wanted to write a story about Niagara Falls, New York. I felt that it was very neglected in storytelling and in movies. I mean, there was Niagara, what is it, Niagara, uh Marilyn Monroe way back when. And I kind of felt like I could do better than um, I love John Candy, but I think I could I could do better than Canadian bacon. Yeah, and just the the gritty backdrop of Niagara Falls is very much kind of a lot about the stories that I'm drawn to with the realistic grounded themes. You know, it's usually about redemption or uh forgiveness or um finding yourself again. Right.

Jeff Ornstein 3:03

Love it. I love it. And this is interesting because you're also a stand-up comedian. So you have a passion for the comical as well as the dramatic. That's true. That's pretty versatile, I think. I would like to understand now your background was um in finance and higher education. So when I when I say your background, I guess that's your professional background, of course.

Jessica O’Donnell 3:25

Yes.

Jeff Ornstein 3:26

Did that play a part in how you approach theater in general, whether it's screenwriting or acting or performance?

Jessica O’Donnell 3:35

I think that my prior career paths in finance and higher education give me the experience to kind of tackle different roles, particularly if it's portraying a white-collar professional. There's definitely a lot of value in being able to play the part, look the part of somebody who's sitting at a desk, typing, talking on the phone, talking to colleagues. There's so many small roles, especially in TV co-star roles, that are very good for moving the story along. They have their own place, and it's definitely good for building your uh credits and your acting reels well.

Jeff Ornstein 4:07

It's interesting because I started studying in New York City about four years ago, and I find a sense that I was in fact the oldest student in every class I was in. Sitting here for the most part. Which is fine, you know. I played a lot of dads, but I did see that the scenes that we played that were about emotionally challenging relationships or really life-altering, you know, traumatic experiences were a little bit more challenging for the young people because he just hadn't lived through it yet. So I That's true, right? And I mean, with with no disrespect to the very talented students I perform with, but they just didn't have the reference. So I I totally understand the fact that if you're a professional and then you're playing one of the many co-starring opportunities that can avail yourself, whether it's a hospital or it's a EMT or it's a law or a crime, there are a lot of those kinds of roles available and they totally build up your portfolio and your reels for you to be considered for other roles. So I want to understand when you say you do consulting for production companies, so that plays into your storytelling and screenwriting. Tell us a little bit about that.

Jessica O’Donnell 5:19

Well, that's a skill I also picked up during the pandemic when we could do nothing else. I I kind of returned to reading and writing when we couldn't be on set and be with other people. I don't know if you've ever heard of a story analyst, but they will generally work with production companies, independent producers or studios, and you'll read scripts or books or even manuscripts, and then kind of decide if it should be a candidate to be adapted to screenplay.

Jeff Ornstein 5:47

It's not just the storyline, I would imagine. It's the characters, it's the environment. And so do you have like one or two like rules of thumb you could share about things that you look for or things that you you try to avoid that says, I don't think this is gonna make the cut as interesting of a story as it is?

Jessica O’Donnell 6:04

Well, I think that one thing they're always looking for is is this project commercial? And does it have appeal? Is it worth spending high budget on? Does it have appeal to only a small group of people or does it have a universal appeal? Also, if I read a book, something might be feasible on the page, but is it producible? Can it be brought to life on screen?

Jeff Ornstein 6:25

Right.

Jessica O’Donnell 6:26

And how expensive will that will be? And if it's too expensive, you can always make it in animation.

Jeff Ornstein 6:31

Good thing Harry Potter didn't go that route, but that's exactly so, because you could have wonderful creative ideas. There's a lot of talent out there, but funding is always a challenge, no matter where you are on the production run in a young filmmaker or even you know one of the top guys in Hollywood. So you're doing a lot. Do you still work nine to five doing your professional gig?

Jessica O’Donnell 6:52

I've transitioned out of that quite a few years ago. So it's been very gradual. Right now I spend the time acting, writing, stand-up comedy, writing, doing the story analyst freelance work on the side. I kind of do a lot of different things, but that's honestly the person I was always meant to be anyway.

Jeff Ornstein 7:08

Great you found it. Well, that's all right. Better late than never, but a lot of people never find. I mean, you didn't just have to find a niche, you had to find multiple niches that all came together. So congratulations. That's excellent.

Jessica O’Donnell 7:21

The funny thing is, and once it started, it just kind of started to snowball.

Jeff Ornstein 7:25

Obviously, you're good at what you do. I think that's the the the summation I would give it. So I love to hear, because I'm fascinated, I stopped listening to news for reasons that we're not going to get into on this podcast. I just I'm no longer interested in driving. I'm in the car enough listening to news. So I listen to a lot of comedy. I've been dissecting it. Like, what makes this comedian good and appealing? And what make what's this comedian's recipe or formula? Do you tell stories? Are there reoccurring characters in your stand-up routine? Or are you a one-liner? What's your relationship with the audience there?

Jessica O’Donnell 8:02

Well, I tend to be more of a storyteller, more than a one-liner type of comedian like a Stephen Wright.

Jeff Ornstein 8:08

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh yeah. He's not even a full sentence.

Jessica O’Donnell 8:10

I admire people who can do that. I'm more of um a person who tells stories. And if I do say something funny at home, or if I crack a joke and I think it we'd be good material, I'll write it down because I'm constantly working the material and stand-up mics locally. And recurring characters that show up, I'm always making jokes about my husband. And um, thankfully he's usually not in the audience. There's always a lot of material for you know to talk about the people that you live with. Right, right. Honestly, I think that a great thing to fall back on is, you know, make fun of yourself because then people can't laugh at you then. They can hopefully laugh with you.

Jeff Ornstein 8:46

And a lot of people out there have spouses, so they can understand the fine line between love and frustration you go through a million times a day. As you say, I think a lot of people can appreciate a little uh humility goes a long way to make the audience kind of love you a little bit here. I'm very impressed with comedians. I mean, I like to think I'm a funny person, but I don't have that writing skill. So your stand-up comedian gigs, are they my understanding is they're oftentimes about 20 minutes?

Jessica O’Donnell 9:12

I haven't quite gotten to the 20-minute mark yet. That's one of the things on my list. You have to always try to build it on your set. Yeah you start with your five, go to your 10, go to your 20, and so on.

Jeff Ornstein 9:23

Okay, that my misunderstanding. So were you really nervous the first time you did it, or did it just take to it like a duck to water, or how'd that go?

Jessica O’Donnell 9:33

The first time I did it was a pretty low stakes situation. So that made it a little bit easier. I don't get nervous anymore. I just I'm I tend to just be hard on myself, you know, and and it's still a riddle to me, like whether what I'm saying is landing. Um, I I think the material is definitely there, but there it's like kind of this dance between your delivery and sounding like you're reciting something from memory. So I still have some things I'm working out.

Jeff Ornstein 10:04

Right. They say timing, timing, timing, right? So Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's uh where you stop, where you breathe, where you pause, how you accentuate. So have you noticed any similarities or parallels between your stage comedian persona or challenges and your script analysis responsibilities?

Jessica O’Donnell 10:24

Well, that's interesting that you asked that. I don't know if I would say parallels so much. I think that the two activities kind of require different sides of the brain.

Jeff Ornstein 10:34

Right.

Jessica O’Donnell 10:35

Stand-up comedy, like I was saying, it's like you have to think on your feet. If I'm doing script analysis, it tends to be something that I can take a little bit more time with, you know, within deadlines. There's a lot more overthinking that I can do there that I can't do on the stage.

Jeff Ornstein 10:52

Right. And like you said, I mean, when you're doing the analysis, it's how many cast members? What where are the sets? What are the costumes? How are we going to fill theaters on a nightly basis? And the comedy is in the here and the now, and then you and the people in the audience, much more immediate. So, what do people think in your family and your friends that you are this corporate, you know, professional lady sitting at a desk doing your professional job? And uh, you know, the pandemic came and that shook things off for sure a little bit. But the next thing they know, you're acting, you're a standing up comedian, you know, your husband's taking hits on stage. What do what do the people around you think? Are they like, wow, you have so blossomed and you found your niche where you should be, or this is fun, you're great, but it's time to get back to the real world?

Jessica O’Donnell 11:40

Well, I don't know. I hope they think that, you know, this new version of me is is fun, but honestly, I think a lot of them aren't really that surprised. I think that I spent a lot of my time growing up, like probably irritating people anyway. And uh now it's like I might as well put it in action.

Jeff Ornstein 11:59

Did you do any theater when you were growing up?

Jessica O’Donnell 12:01

I mean I did a little bit in high school. I was always ended up on the chorus and and the the musical.

Jeff Ornstein 12:07

Right.

Jessica O’Donnell 12:07

But yeah, it was always there. Some dance lessons, some ballet when I was a kid, and some theater in high school. And I think the message always was like, well, you really gotta get a real job. Right. And it's something to fall back on. So I thought, okay, I won't major in theater. Truthfully, a lot of them will say you don't really need to anyway.

Jeff Ornstein 12:28

Right. Experience. But just go and just do it. One of the things they teach us at my school is if you're working, great. And if you're not working, you should be studying. So you should never stop studying whenever you can get it in between a job. So being active is better than being sedentary. I wanted to know a little bit more about False Candy, also. It got some terrific recognition, I see.

Jessica O’Donnell 12:50

I did submit it to some screenplay contests and it placed in a couple areas. It's it's it's gotten a little bit of interest. These days, writing a spec screenplay doesn't have quite the, you know, get rich quick it did in the 90s, for instance. It's more like I I have this screenplay in me. I need to get it out. I did actually write a spin-off pilot from that screenplay as well. And you know, what I could end up doing with it is I could probably pull some scenes from it and film it anyway. Use that as professional reel.

Jeff Ornstein 13:23

Right. Were you envisioning it as a feature or as a streaming, you know, production with episodes? What would what were your aspirations for it?

Jessica O’Donnell 13:32

Well, False Candy is a feature and it has a spin-off pilot, which would be a series. So these things are kind of rewritten and rewritten, and they sit there. It's just part of my portfolio, I guess, at this point.

Jeff Ornstein 13:45

Right, right. So it said, I don't want to misquote it, but the producers talked about it. It was uh not female oriented, but it was from a woman's perspective. Is there a story about women and women's strength and women's relationship? Is there a a women's component to false candy?

Jessica O’Donnell 14:03

Well, false candy has a uh female lead character. You know, and it she and I have to say, you know, in learning to write a screenplay and this being my my my attempt, I think I based her much on myself.

Jeff Ornstein 14:17

Right.

Jessica O’Donnell 14:18

So it's sort of like a story, a little bit about myself and about, you know, it is really a start a story about starting over and having a next act.

Jeff Ornstein 14:26

Right, right. Excellent. Good for you. Art imitating life, right? Art imitating life. Right. Indeed. That's terrific. If you're uh get some notice, if someone has found your script and said, This is just so brilliant, I have to make this into a a feature. And you have this spin-off, but are there other genres that you would want to dabble into, or do you do are you really committed to these personal stories that you know have a the viewers have a very personal relationship with and it's an emotional relationship?

Jessica O’Donnell 14:56

Well, I'm definitely open. That's kind of one of my downfalls is having too much interest in too many areas. Yeah, I I think it'd be great to write comedy as well, which I do for um stand-up.

Jeff Ornstein 15:09

How long did it take you to write the feature before you said, I'm putting the staples in, it's done.

Jessica O’Donnell 15:14

I think I did the right thing by kind of doing all my research beforehand, and I think it took about three months to write the first draft.

Jeff Ornstein 15:22

Wow. Did you write every day?

Jessica O’Donnell 15:24

I wrote for a few minutes every day.

Jeff Ornstein 15:26

Right.

Jessica O’Donnell 15:27

And that's really all you have to do. Right, right. Because a few minutes you start you start, you sit down, you're like, I'm gonna write for a few minutes, and it turns into like an hour. Right.

Jeff Ornstein 15:37

Excellent.

Jessica O’Donnell 15:37

It's like working out.

Jeff Ornstein 15:38

Yeah, I mean you get your mojo and you get your momentum, and then this scene is your juices are flowing and characters are interacting, and it's just the way you had hoped it would be. And then you put it down, you come back, and you can read the next day and figure out where you're going to go. So let's a little bit about your acting. I don't I don't want to focus just on the screenwriting because I'm fascinated by the acting. What kind of venues are you are you trying to do film? Is that an aspiration or TV or are you are you interested in theater?

Jessica O’Donnell 16:05

Uh I think the best next step for me is pursuing co-star roles in TV. Mm-hmm. And being willing to jump on a train to New York City when necessary. And I think the first thing I need to do is get an agent so that I can get access to these small roles.

Jeff Ornstein 16:21

Right.

Jessica O’Donnell 16:21

And I think that's really what I need to do next.

Jeff Ornstein 16:24

Right.

Jessica O’Donnell 16:24

Because as of now, I've um I've built up some roles on my resumes from short film, and I was actually in a feature, a small independent feature as well. Excellent. But uh yeah, um, that's that's really what I need to do next.

Jeff Ornstein 16:39

Right. You know, one of my professors showed us his reel one day in class, and maybe there were eight snippets, and some of them were four seconds long. You know, they convey something. So, and I mentioned that because it's hard to get reels. And you know, you could be in something, and you know, you could have a lot of lines, you could have a lot of screen time, but you really just need to capture that line that shows you and your character and something personal being communicated to the viewer. So good luck with that. There are people that make a healthy living doing those co-starring roles. There's a lot of them out there. Are you on backstage and IMDB and all that good stuff?

Jessica O’Donnell 17:21

Yes. Yeah, I I that's where I got a lot of my um opportunities for short roles was off of backstage. Um I mostly um I have a I have an actor's access profile and casting networks also um that kind of get you that kind of get you um the medium types of roles. Excellent.

Jeff Ornstein 17:41

But you're committed to getting an agent.

Jessica O’Donnell 17:44

Agent, yeah. I think that would be definitely the game changer because it kind of opens up your access to all kinds of auditions that you don't get from self-submitting.

Jeff Ornstein 17:53

I am very impressed with all the tentacles you got out there and and in a relatively short time. I mean, just since the pandemic. Um, and it's the movers and the shakers here that make a difference. So congratulations. Thank you so much for joining us. Um good luck. Oh, it's my pleasure. Good luck moving into the future, and I've got a pretty good feeling um we'll be seeing a lot more of you.

Jessica O’Donnell 18:16

I hope so.

Jeff Ornstein 18:18

Okay. All right. Take care.

Jessica O’Donnell 18:20

Thank you. Take care.

Jeff Ornstein 18:22

Thanks for tuning in to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein. Follow, subscribe, and stay connected to your favorite socials at www next actpodcast.com. Keep chasing your next act. The best is yet to come.